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Wait, What? Ep. 128: Radical Cheek

Jeff Lester

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Giffen doing Kirby in the amazing MOTU: Origin of Hordak one-shot.

Delays, delays, delays!  Sorry for ’em–I was out of town for a few days losing money at “The World’s Biggest Little Slot Machine Gouge.”  No complaints on that front, actually — I spent much more time lying by the pool and eating cinnamon rolls the size of my head than I did setting my money on fire and throwing it in the air (metaphorically, mind you: it only felt like that because of the speed with which it disappeared out of my hands) and had really a fine old time overall — but it did get in the way of timely posting of this, our 128th podcast and the one right before we take a week off.

Join me after the link, won’t you, for some hasty show notes as I get ready to hustle my butt out the door?  (Hey, it is New Comics Day, you know!)

0:00-60:35: It’s a new record: we go from complaining about the Internet to Age of Ultron #10 in under two minutes!  Yes, if you like hearing Graeme and Jeff wax rhapsodic about the possibilities of comics, this most certainly is not the segment for you.  I wish I could summarize everything said in this segment for you but let’s just say — if you had a complaint about Age of Ultron #10, we probably cover it in here.
60:35-1:06:41: Graeme was also non-pleased with a recent scene in Uncanny Avengers in which Rick Remender discusses his earlier controversial scene with a certain degree of, um, straw-mannishness, shall we say? I have a helpful image to illustrate!
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1:06:41-1:16:59:  In the “stuff we need to talk about but have no idea how to actually talk about” department, we spend far too few minutes discussing Kim Thompson’s passing and how much the contemporary comic market owes to him.
1:16:59-1:27:51: And then after contemplating comics and mortality, it’s time to discuss the first six issues of Superman/Batman by Loeb and McGuinness. Graeme’s version of Jeph Loeb’s storytelling is actually better than the last three Loeb stories Jeff has read.
1:27:51-end: Other comics:  Masters of the Universe The Origin of Hordak one shot by Keith Giffen; Shade The Changing Man #2 by Steve Ditko and Michael Fleisher (see photo below of page discussed in the segment);
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The Ditko Public Service Package by Steve Ditko; Empowered Deluxe Edition Vol. 2 by Adam Warren; Batman & Batgirl #21; the currently gorgeous looking Judge Dredd story by John Wagner and Dave Taylor currently running in 2000 A.D.; and a Best of 2000 A.D. reprint I sprung on Graeme to see if he knew it:

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(Do you think he’ll be able to identify it? Tune and in see!)

And so, that’s the ep! It’ll probably be available on iTunes by the time you check this out, but it should also be available to you right here, right below:

Wait, What? Ep. 128: Radical Cheek

Remember, Graeme and I won’t be recording this week, so there’ll be no podcast next week, but we should be back after that to begin the whole cycle anew.  As always, we hope you enjoy, and thanks for listening!

24 Responses to “ Wait, What? Ep. 128: Radical Cheek ”

  1. What’s the over/under on how many episodes it will be before Graeme borrows the Age of Ultron TPB from the library and says, “You know, when you read this all in one go, it’s really not that bad”? I’ll take 32.

  2. Regarding Rick Remender’s dopey “M-word” speech, Bendis – of all people – had a fantastic response in this week’s All New X-Men.

  3. ‘wolverine juice’

  4. J. Wilberforce Wise: Hahaha! See also: god, I hope not.

  5. Origin of Hordak was one weird-ass comic. First of all, it wasn’t even an origin. Second of all, Zodac? Shouldn’t that be Hordak Prime instead? Then again, this is all-new, all-different, right?

  6. Thanks for another great show you two scamps!

    The discussion of the CBR review of Age of Ultron was fascinating and brought home to me the big problems with comic news sites.

    The ease with which content writers, bloggers and podcasts can publish a review seems to have led us to a situation where the basic critical requirements of a review are not being met. Perhaps worse, that the idea of criticism is equated with negativity almost exclusively.

    The reason Roger Ebert, or Mark Kermode are referred to as ‘film-critics’ isn’t because they find fault with movies, it’s because they apply the concept of critical-theory when analyzing a film as either art or entertainment.

    A review should offer the reader an opinion, an analysis of the work and judgement on whether or not it succeeds as art or as entertainment and the reviewer must be able to explain his/her conclusions.

    It might be because of the way they were set up and have evolved, it may be that nobody really tried to set a better example along the way but the sad truth appears to be that the CBRs, Newsaramas and iFanboys kind of have to play nice with the Big 2 at the risk of being cut out of the loop.

    I find it troubling that this arrangement, possibly as a side-effect, seems to erode the news site’s credibility but none of the publishers.

    Jim Johnson’s review of Age of Ultron at CBR is appalling, does not conform to basic criteria of a review, and while it is gratifying to read the fan reaction to it I still can’t shake the feeling that we ended up with precisely the kind of comics reporting we deserve.

  7. I don’t normally listen to Wait, What? from start to finish, but this time you had topics I was interested in from front to back (2000 AD excepted).

    The list of donors in the Ditko Public Service Package was one of the fascinating parts of the book, simply to see so many industry pros and bloggers (like Jeff) listed therein.

    Thank for you bringing the CBR review to my attention; Marc-Oliver Frisch’s recent sales chart where he mocked CBR’s reviews was a good piece of fun; this Age of Ultron review? It’s like a bad parody given life. It’s earned all the derision heaped on it and I hope it does something to convince CBR to clean up their act. By Gar, people, show some professional standards.

  8. Hey, I think James Gunn can do pretty awesome female characters. Ana is a great lead in Dawn of the Dead. Boltie from Super is a dysfunctional character for sure, but portrayed with vitality. Actually, I would dig it if you guys reviewed Super on the show. It’s something I think you’d get a lot out of, especially Jeff.

  9. Maybe this is stating the obvious, but my thinking on Age of Ultron was that it was always supposed to reintroduce ROM to the Marvel U. There was chatter lately that Marvel was in talks to get the rights back. Thematically, ROM fits better with Ultron and also makes perfect sense as a Guardian of the Galaxy (just as the Annihilators had a non-ROM Speceknight a few years ago).

    I think the legal wrangling fell through horribly, but they had to publish the thing because of Bendis’ contract. Angela was a face-saving late addition and Quessada’s “secret” ending pages were secret because the content of them was in flux until the last minute. Also explains why it looks rushed and has nothing to do with the end of AoU. the number of artists on Issue 10 makes me think the content was rewritten very recently.

  10. Now that I think about it, I wonder if Marvel had the publishing rights to ROM sewn up but it was the movie rights that fell through at the last minute, necessitating the change. Would also explain the rushed publication schedule because GotG casting is in pre-prod.

  11. Ethan, your second thought may be more correct. I’m pretty sure I saw Dire Wraiths as baddies in some comic I’ve read in the last year (and I’m pretty sure it wasn’t during a Jeff-and-Graeme-fueled deep dive into the Starlins and Engelharts of past decades).

  12. So Jeff, you’re going to get rid of your comic collection? Am I hearing that right? How are you going to do it: donate them, give them away, sell em on ebay, bonfire in the backyard?

    I’m curious, I’ve been trying to cull a chunk of my collection that I never plan to read again… but it’s hard to get rid of some of it anyway. I’m pretty curious about your comic hospice plans.

  13. Great episode all around.

    The CBR review was one thing, but my favorite exculpatory line came from an iFanboy columnist:

    “Endings are quite a trick in a world where the characters never age and the stories are always To Be Continued. Maybe this one pulled it off as well as one can under the circumstances. Or maybe the journey is more important than the destination. Either way, the sights along the way this time were well worth it.”

    This is a great new addition to the Big Two ‘fanboy mantra. All along they could excuse naysayers by telling them to “Wait till the last issue! See how it finishes!” But now once the final issue comes out, they’ve developed a technique of saying “…Well, nothing ever really ENDS in superhero comics, don’t you know. So, let’s be civilized and enlightened about things here: this isn’t a ‘bad’ ending.”

    It’s utterly amazing to me that these sorts of readers seem to dream up excuses like this of their own volition. No one has to tell what to say. The fear of ever having to say anything negative, or admit that they’ve made a mistake in what they vocally support, causes them to think up endless new ways of letting sh*t slide. Instead of figuring out how to cause the industry to improve their offerings, their brainpower works overtime to find new ways of intellectualizing and celebrating utter crap.

    They honestly put more effort into excusing Bendis’s b.s. than Bendis himself puts into writing it.

  14. Wattan on June 28th, 2013 at 12:45 pm said:
    “… No one has to tell what to say. The fear of ever having to say anything negative..”

    Right on!

  15. Only 45 minutes in and already a dozen classic lines.

    “Palling is Old English for ‘plus’ ”
    “Graeme, I definitely felt something leave my body.”

    Oh man, I’m in tears.

  16. Agreed, Cass. I’m still working through it and it’s had me guffawing several times.

  17. I only became aware of this latest issue of this podcast through a link from Abhay’s tumblr blog (Twist Street). When I tried to access the podcast through Savage Critics website, it doesn’t appear there for some reason. (Maybe I’m being blocked because I’m such a blockhead).

    Anyhow, why would anybody trust a review of a Marvel comic book on CBR when CBR is clearly beholden to Marvel with it’s Axel-In-Charge column (post Quesada).

    It’s almost as if Jeff and Graeme decided to become television (Netflix) critics, and started to critique shows such as, I dunno… Arrested Development?

  18. By the way, I still listen to this podcast (when I am made aware of it) although I haven’t read a comic book in over two months. Comic books are dead to me. So go ahead and hate on comic books all you want. The industry has denied it’s past and has eaten it’s young.

  19. Robert G, I don’t think you’re being blocked because you’re a blockhead. I have the same problem when viewing the Savage Critics website on Firefox. Right now, it’s not showing any posts past Brian Hibbs’ 6/21 Tilting at Windmills posts. I can see the later posts (including this one) on Explorer, on my phone, and on my Kindle … just not on Firefox on my computer. The same thing happened a few months ago.

  20. I’m on Explorer and having the same problem. The weird thing is that it’s a total gamble. If I refresh once, it may still display an outdated version of the page, but if I continually refresh, it will eventually display the most current version (but if I refresh after that, it reverts, very frustrating). I’ve cleared my history, so it’s not that. I suspect it’s the Skype Goblin, incarnating in new forms so that it may continue to vex this podcast even now that you’ve moved on to Facetime.

  21. It’s poltergeisting me as well. I’m pretty sure it’s a cache problem with WordPress. Kate and Jeff are looking into it.

  22. I’m having the same “no new posts” problem on multiple browsers, Chrome and Firefox.

  23. Clearing my browser cache in Chrome did the trick for me.

  24. Didn’t we all give up on CBR ages ago?
    Is this review really any worse then reviews theyve had before?

    Like hearing you guys talk about 2000AD, keep it up :)

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