diflucan 2 doses

Wait, What? Ep. 31: Epic Runs of Non-Epicness

Jeff Lester


I’ll spare you the epic amounts of bitching I usually unleash around this time, the end/start/whatever-the-hell-it-is of Daylight Savings Time that always fucks me up for at least a few days and sometimes as much as a week. Suffice it to say, if you’ve ever heard Paul F. Tompkins’ terrific bit mocking people who over-react to DST, and wander about in a daze saying things like, “Who–who’s President? What day is this? Have I grown a long, woolly beard?”, you will know he is making fun of people like me. Even as I laughed with recognition at the routine and promised to change, I apparently cannot: it took a taser to get me out of bed this morning.

Anyway, enough about that! Let’s talk about Wait, What? Episode 31! Martian Manhunter! Justice League Detroit! Takio! Michael Fleisher’s run on Ghost Rider! John Romita, Jr.! L’il Punisher! It’s got just about everything you could want–more or less–in just as much time in which you would want it–provided you would want it in about 90 minutes.

It should be on Itunes! (Alternately? It is on Itunes!) And you can listen to it here, if that is the sort of thing you like to do:

Wait, What? Ep. 31: Epic Runs of Non-Epicness

As noted on the podcast itself, we are still working with a slightly touchy Skype connection, my new buzzy headphones, and a willingness to work at improving the sound quality via Levelator and noise removal tools.  If it sounds hinky to you, please let us know–we are still working the bugs out.

And, as always, thanks for listening!

14 Responses to “ Wait, What? Ep. 31: Epic Runs of Non-Epicness ”

  1. Great podcast this week guys! Loved

    I agree with the “good always winning thing” being a bit of strange idea when you attempt to overlay it onto the whole of the DCU, but I’ve never really had any problem reconciling that with the DCU as a whole. But then again I’ve never cared about making the whole thing “fit together” which is, I think, a wholly losing proposition that is at best interesting for fan discussion and individual theorization, but which is absolutely impossible to nail down in any canonical fashion.

    My first comics were the newspaper strips though, not comic books and I think that really effected how I view things, because I don’t expect the whole thing to make sense from a long form story view. I don’t care about the whole thing fitting together. It can’t possibly. Which more or less just amounts to saying that I really want creators over characters, and individual voice, relevant conceptual framework and depth of metaphorical resonance over “continuity” (I’m not against internal consistency, just against overt, stifling literalism).

    And man, oh man, I’d so, SO love to hear what Dean would do with the DCU…

  2. Oops, somehow part of my first paragraph got cut off…

    It should say:

    Loved the discussion about the inherent rules of super-hero universes and lack of tension that can bring for some.

  3. Hey Jeff, the Darkseid origin story was definitely a back-up in whatever Fourth World book that Byrne was working on at the time. I think is was called Jack Kirby’s Fourth World or something similar by that point. I didn’t read any of the Orion series, and I do remember reading the Darkseid origin, so it had to be in the Fourth World/New Gods series.

  4. Hey now. There will be no dissing of Bob Budiansky in my presence. His Ghost Rider was pretty weird and exciting, and, as we all know, Sleepwalker was amazing. (Seriously. It was awesome.)

  5. Despite the Ghost Rider-heavy content (a book which I bought 1 issue of as it came out, strangely the Jim Starlin cross-country race against Death issue which is acclaimed as the least-crappy issue in a crappy run, and which my 12 year old self still thought was kinda crap) this podcast hit so many buttons of my 12 year old inner geek that I’ve been waiting for you to post it here so I could comment on it (I already listened to it on iTunes). Here are some of the highlights for me:
    The discussion of the original Nova series. Although I remember Harvey comics being bought for me as rewards for going to the doctor or dentist, the 1st comic I know I bought for myself (my 1st “real” comic) was Nova #13, which I purchased in a bus station to read on my 1st solo adventure, when my parents put me on a bus to go visit a friend in Nevada City. When I arrived, my friend, who was a few years older, chastised me for folding up this collectible & stuffing it in my pocket, but I still have it & strangely it’s in OK shape. It turned me on to Marvel, & after buying some later Nova issues & some Spider-man I caught the parallels even then.
    The crazy-ass Michael Fleisher run on The Spectre was something I came into much later, but I have to agree with Jeff that the Doug Moench-Gray Morrow issue of The Spectre with the ample Madame Xanadu nudity was fairly titillating, simply because you didn’t expect it to be there (and no “For Mature Readers” warning either!) The plot concept that The Spectre could forego jumping back into Jim Corrigan every 24 hours by spiritually fucking Xanadu, like, constantly, made it a little out there as well. Amusingly, a few years later I remember looking at a Playboy, circa late-70’s-early 80’s, & experiencing deja vu, because Morrow had obviously cribbed one of his naked Xanadu panels from it, & if you look at the entirely sexualized poses of Madame Xanadu throughout the comic, I’m pretty sure Gray stole all of them from Playboy or other girlie magazines. I’m the same age as Jeff, perhaps a year or 2 younger, when I bought this, by the way. Here’s to crazy-ass Moench & Morrow!
    Jeff makes Ghost Rider sound awesome, but if the Essential collections are to be believed, & you have to buy New Defenders & Secret Wars 2 to get the end of the Johnny Blaze story, then clearly this is a deal breaker. At the time, I thought the J.M. DeMatteis run completely ruined the Defenders comic I loved (Ed Hannigan & Herb Trimpe certainly did it no favors, but it was still marginally the same comic that Englehart & Gerber & Sal Buscema & Dave Kraft & Keith Giffen infused incredible awesomeness into.)
    Perhaps I’ve rambled long enough.
    Or maybe not! Where in the Defenders did they pick up the Man-Wolf plotline? And if they did, does this prove that Silver/Bronze Age Marvel knew what to do with continuity, whereas now continuity means that mainstream comics are completely impenetrable to new readers while giving fan service to an ever-shrinking populace of old fanboys?
    Bring back the cold opens. They were fun.

  6. I can’t really remember the last time a Big Two comic inspired tension in me with regards to the outcome. Maybe back when Affable Alan Moore kept killing Swamp Thing? That’s a really odd thought actually. Am I really that passive now? I’ll have to ask someone to think about that for me.

    That Martian Manhunter mini-series (AMERICAN SECRETS(?)) was pretty good. Eduardo Baretto is under-rated. Like Don Heck.

    ORION was a work of epic spectacle like unto a thing which might dazzle thine orbs o’vision! Simonson proving he could do more than the Odinson! Of course: it got cancelled. Because of people like you, Jeff Lester! What’s liking stuff got to do with it! You should have bought it anyway! Fie upon the “Anti-Boner!!!” Don’t listen to Jeff Lester (he’s all mixed up due to DST)it’s totally worth your eye-time, kids.

    As for selling comics to kids I’m no expert but “Hey kids, rubbish!” just doesn’t have the right ring somehow. Yes, it would probably help if they gave the assignment to someone with solid storytelling skills rather than, well, someone without them but with super special networking skillz and a high level of Brand Recognition (ugh, I think a part of my soul died just typing that phrase) that is applicable to a completely different age group.

    Sure, kids may be uncivilised creatures more akin to beasts than people but this does mean they are unencumbered by the years of conditioning and the resulting ossified purchasing patterns of the average DM customer. What works on one isn’t going to work for the other. So I’d suggest a first step might be to stop treating kids like children; oh, wait… Um, really if they are going to use failure to sell comics to kids as a rationale for there being no market for comics among kids, it might be worth pointing out that this says nothing about kids, comics or the relationship between the two but everything about the company. C’mon now, not being able to sell comics to kids must be analogous to not being able to organise a p*ss up in a brewery.

    As for Ghost Rider; I like to sing Elvis’ Night Rider but replacing the word “night” with “ghost”. You’ll all be doing it tomorrow! If Graeme McMillan is blind to the fact that the character’s head is constantly on fire and is thus the epitome of awesome then that’s on him. You tried, Jeff Lester, and that’s all that can be asked of any man. I look forward to you reading Jason Aaron’s GR run around 2013 A.D.

    Thanks as ever, gentlemen.

  7. Steve Lawrence and Edie Gorme. And wasn’t Angie Dickinson a Rat Pack hanger-on?

  8. RT @RONMARZ Walt also told us what his planned ending for Orion was (at issue #50). It would have been epic. And awesome. Awesomely epic!

    Jordan: (jaw-drop) ;-(

  9. OK, this is weird. I JUST threw in the recently-released-on-DVD Mystery Science Theater 3000 episode “The Magic Voyage of Sinbad,” and while introducing a Rat Pack chess set, Tom Servo describes them as, exact quote, “a drinking man’s Justice League of America.” Wouldn’t find that odd at all if I hadn’t been listening to Jeff and Graeme trying to map one onto the other yesterday morning. A reference to that particular idea twice in two days? Just bizarre.

  10. Oh, and count me in on the approval of the Moench/Morrow Spectre-Madame Xanadu all-sex issue. I can’t remember if it was code-approved or not, all I remember was that Xanadu was nekkid and orgasmic for the entire issue. As the kids say, I am down wid that.

  11. The Rat Pack Chess Set


    Thanks for the tip, Jonathan. This is a brilliant little bit.

  12. Jonathan,

    You think that’s a coincidence? Imagine how I feel, retweeting a Ron Marz comment moments before my twitter feed explodes with bile and vitriol!

    Dr. Orpheus: “I sense Zatanna’s heavy hand in this. Have any of you mocked her recently?”

    Graeme & Jeff: “Ah, no….I…”

    Dr. Orpheus: “…Or perhaps her unfortunate sideburns?”

    Zatanna: “noR zraM kcatta!”

  13. Jonathan: I’ll confess, I saw that ep. back when Comedy Central first broadcast it in the mid-’90s but had forgotten it entirely. Needless to say, Joel and the gang do far more (I apologize) justice to the idea than Graeme and myself. Thanks to Tim for digging up that clip!

    God, I miss MST3K. Wish I had the time to queue up some eps. on Netflix WI.

    And, finally, yesterday’s kerfluffle with Ron Marz makes sense! Thanks for that, J_Smitty!

  14. Just came into the entire Ostrander MARTIAN MANHUNTER run on a comics buy at my bookstore the other day. Totally taking them home and reading them now.

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