diflucan 2 doses

Wait, What? Ep. 86: Defending Your Life

Jeff Lester


(Visual from Art Spigelman’s piece on Maurice Sendak unrelated to this episode, but I adore it too much to ignore it!)

Hail and well met, fellow Whatnauts! Sadly, my M.O. of dashing something off in a state approaching sheer terror continues as I managed to put this together in time to hit all of our deadlines but with unexpected side-effect of stripping my soul down to its most bald-tiredian self. Forgive me, won’t you?

But, hey, at least as a result you get to dig into the nougaty goodness that is Wait, What? Ep. 86. Packed with seven essential vitamins and minerals, the latest episode of Graeme and I answering your questions is part of this complete breakfast. [Quick shot of podcast next to two eggs, bacon, a nutritional shake, vitamin c supplements, orange juice, a package of Mark Ruffalo cheesestraws, half a grapefruit, a small Caesar salad, three strips of cooked lean fish, half a pound of spinach and kale, and a small palmful of acai berries and organic cocoa.]

For almost two hours and fifteen minutes, the McMeister and I talk San Diego Comic Con, Joss Whedon, trolling, Radiolab, the nicest people in comics, Scott Morse, Walt Simonson’s Orion, The New 52 free comic book day book, Greg Rucka, Books of Magic, Superman’s heat vision, Chris Roberson’s Memorial, comic book pricing, how we would spend twenty dollars on digital comics, our favorite cheesecake artists, Gail Simone, Brian Woods’ The Massive, Jim Shooter and world-class editors, Jim Steranko, 20th Century Boys and Bakuman.

And more? Yes, more.

Some of you have perhaps already booked a seat at this fine feast via the magic of iTunes. But if not, we invite you to tie a napkin around your neck Tex Avery-style and dig right in:

Wait, What? Ep. 85: Defending Your Life

As always, we appreciate your continued patronage and hope you find the meal to your liking!


42 Responses to “ Wait, What? Ep. 86: Defending Your Life ”

  1. starting to make notes while listening

    Re: Gail Simone and good first issues.
    Well, yeah, only one shot is the logical idea. If the goal is to read good comics, and the first one isnt good, even though it might get better you still have better odds with something completely untested.
    If Batgirl didnt really work but shows signs of potential, you’d have the better chance of getting something good if you went for something completely random like Wasteland #37.
    Might not be fair to Gail Simone, but its even more unfair to all those people your not even giving one chance.

    Re: super editors
    Does that sort of thing exist in prose publishing? Don’t editors, as we understand them, only exist to have a monthly issue of some IP come out regardless of whos on it? I know prose has editors, but the thing your talking about seems more like a show runner. Which could be interesting.

  2. I had the same reaction as jeff when i left the avengers. Parts of the movie were entertaining but on the whole…meh. It actually reminds me a lot of whedons astonishing x-men run. It looks really good. has great visuals. has some really nice character moments. but take a step back and look at the whole thing and its a mess. I think that its so big a movie that people overlook the story deficiencies while their in the moment. THink about it too much and you’ll start to pick it apart.

  3. It’s obviously none of my business — it’s between Mr. Lester and his New Gods — but again and again we come back to this idea that you can keep up your boycott (or whatever you’d like to call it) and still enjoy the entertainment you’re protesting.

    By which I mean: buying a ticket to Think Like A Man and going to see The Avengers is a bit like downloading pirated copies of Daredevil. The protest is meaningless if you’re not sacrificing anything. You’re also stealing — which tends to mitigate the stand you’re taking for ethics in the first place.

    I know that Mr. Lester knows this. But considering the strenuous logic-hoop-jumping under discussion about matching funds to charitable organizations and so on, it felt worth pointing out.

    Having said all that, this was another fun podcast and thanks for all that you do.

  4. “The protest is meaningless if you’re not sacrificing anything.”

    Is it? Why? It’s a protest, not a religious rite – the point is presumably to object to the practices of various companies or industries, not to simply deprive oneself of a product out of sheer asceticism.

  5. Before I get to more substantive stuff, I love the fact that you guys went almost 45 minutes before you got to answering the questions when you ended the last podcast by saying that you were going to get the question in a speedy manner. That seems like the perfect summation of Wait, What? to me, but in a good way. The podcast would be a lot less interesting and entertaining if it was less rambly and digressive.

    I also agree with the idea that if the first issue of series doesn’t really catch your attention you are probably better off dropping the series and looking for something else. If the issue isn’t just outright amazing or have some hook then you should move on and, if it does get better, you can always go back and buy the collection. Also, given not only the amount of comics competing for the reader’s attention but just all of the various kinds of entertainment out there, a stunning first issue is a necessity I think. However, I believe this is mostly because of the high cost of committing to an ongoing comic in the single issue format nowadays.

    Also, I have some follow-up questions for things you guys were discussing in the podcast.

    1)Could there ever be an American version of Bakuman that showed the inner workings of Marvel/DC or are the staff at Marvel and DC too paranoid and/or thin-skinned to take something like for what it is and not as a personal assault on the people who work for the companies? Also, how depressing would that comic be given that there would be DC editors calling writers and telling they are off of the book they are writing because the editor suddenly got it in his head that he wants the book to go in a different direction and editors from Marvel scrambling to find 15 artists who could draw an issue in less than three weeks because of their insane shipping schedule?

    2)Why does Gail Simone continue to have such a dedicated fanbase when it seems like her fanbase tends to be antagonistic or outright hostile towards a lot of what DC does, including the Batgirl relaunch that Simone is working on. Do they just want to believe in her that badly or is there some kind of other cognitive dissonance going on there?

  6. Only about halfway through the podcast, but I have to say, take no prisoners Jeff Lester is by far the best Jeff Lester.

  7. Moose: Does that really need explaining? Are you honestly arguing that theft is an acceptable solution to an ethical issue?

  8. Whoa, whoa, whoa. The “underwear bomber” is not a guy on trial. He was an informer for Saudi intelligence and the CIA, who turned in this special bomb to the CIA (so he wasn’t really a bomber at all): http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/may/09/underwear-bomber-working-for-cia

    You guys made it sound like this guy tried to pull off an attack and is now on trial. I think you may have had him confused with Richard Reid, who was the “show bomber” from 2002, who is now serving life in prison in Supermax in Colorado.

  9. RF, I don’t even consider what’s being talked about here to be theft, given that the industry that we’re talking about – and all industry in our political and economic system, for that matter – is based on stealing billions of dollars from ordinary workers every day. Seriously, is depriving Marvel Entertainment, Inc. of the price of a movie ticket supposed to be an equivalent crime to Marvel’s systematic looting of its employees’ work – a decades-long and ongoing theft which has served as the basis of the company’s very existence? If someone torrents a .cbr file of Action Comics, is that supposed to be somehow the same as DC making mountains of cash off Superman and Batman while Joe Shuster and Bill Finger died in poverty?

    If you’re going to get huffy over theft, ask yourself why executives at Disney are going to make more money off of The Avengers than anyone involved in actually making either the movie itself or any of the comics that it’s based on. That’s real theft, and it’s a form of theft that goes unchallenged every day.

    (And no, I don’t think what you’re calling “theft” is a “solution” to this issue – but neither is simple abstention. The only way the comics industry will change is through mass action, from within and without – which means, at a minimum, that artists and writers have to organize themselves at some point around some pretty basic demands, with support from their readers. Whether this is possible before the industry collapses, I have no idea.

    To his credit, Jeff has never claimed that he’s solving, or even attempting to solve, what’s fucked up about the comic industry – he’s only claimed to be trying to address his own feelings of complicity within a part of that system, which I think is a fine and laudable, and usually personal and idiosyncratic, project.)

  10. I had the the same feelings as Jeff regarding Jonathan Case and Dear Creature. Lovely art, but the story needed work, especially the bare-bones, predictable middle and end. I get the feeling Case was drawing his ass off and eventually realized that padding the book out any more would lead to a diminishing return. His art on The Creep in Dark Horse Presents doesn’t come close to Dear Creature, which is a shame.

  11. I don’t know if you guys mentioned him or not during the “Cheesecake” segment, but Adam Hughes, man.

    Re: Gail Simone – I came in during the latter half of her Wonder Woman run after catching up with trades and I have to say I frequently couldn’t make sense of what was happening from issue to issue, but I liked Lopresti’s art.

  12. Moose, on the last point we completely agree.

    And I get that you don’t mind stealing bread from the mouths of decadence. But honestly, if you’re all huffy and smash-the-state about that stuff to begin with (and there’s no reason why you shouldn’t be), I can’t imagine you’re going to enjoy the Avengers movie much anyway. Can it be any fun to watch the rape of workers in three dimensions in IMAX with a tub of buttered popcorn? I would think that would be a dispiriting experience indeed.

    I’m talking about pure principle. In this case, I think theft, even justifiable theft (stealing from thieves/all property is theft/smash the state/Temple of the Dog is your favorite band/etc.), undermines whatever statement one would hope to make by diverting one’s dollars away from the dastardly Disney coffers.

    However, you’re right: these choices are personal and unique to an individual’s moral compass. I’m just saying, it’s not asking a lot to give up a stupid movie or a buncha stupid comics in order to stand up for your beliefs.

  13. “it’s not asking a lot to give up a stupid movie or a buncha stupid comics in order to stand up for your beliefs.”

    Here’s where I think we’re largely talking around each other: I don’t see my personal consumption habits as having much of anything to do with “standing up for my beliefs” at all. The system that produces these things – not just comics and movies but ordinary food and household products – is so fundamentally corrupt that in order to abstain from every product or service produced by questionable means, I’d have to move out to the woods and live in a Unabomber shack. And all that abstention wouldn’t do a bit of good: the same corrupt, exploitative system would keep on chugging along quite well without me. If we’re going to change the system, it’s going to happen not by a change in our individual purchasing habits, but by organizing masses of other people who want to see those changes happen. That doesn’t mean “smashing the state” – an empty and insurrectionary slogan that typically doesn’t mean much upon interrogation – but organizing workers to take control of their work and the product of their labor. That’s hard, long-term work, and it’s more difficult and complicated than saying “I’m not going to see this movie” and then patting yourself on the back as if you’ve done something significant by not spending ten bucks to see an action flick.

    (And no, I’ve no interest in seeing the Avengers movie, but Jeff clearly did have an interest in seeing it, and I’m defending his decision to abstain, or not abstain, from Marvel products according to his own idiosyncratic personal and ideological preference – in being a kind of comic book pescatarian, as it were.)

  14. Moose: You’re right, we were talking around one another, and it turns out we basically agree. This all started because I was making a point to Mr. Lester that was basically, “Walk it like you talk it,” but my heart’s not really in it for the very drop-in-the-ocean reasons you outline above.

    For my part, I spend loads of money on Marvel product but I really LIKE the Marvel comics I buy. (I don’t buy the ones I don’t like.) I’m not sure Mr. Lester liked those comics much, so it’s probably best for everybody that he not buy them. And I assuage my labor-dispute guilt in ways that I’ll keep to myself, because you guys don’t care and what works for me may not work for you and varying mileage and so on and so forth.

    And yeah, I was kinda kidding with the SMASH THE STATE business (see also: references to “Hunger Strike” by Temple of the Dog).

    So yeah! Good talk!

  15. I agree with Jeff that the Questioning of Renee Montoya wasn’t the best move, but I’m not convinced she’s off the board so far as the New 52 is concerned. OK, she IS on the board of deid cops in Batwoman, but she could be just presumed dead, perhaps off in Namba Parbat, or otherwise avoiding that wacko Kate Kane. I’d rather she were the Question than the chap from the FCD comic – the vibe is too Marvel Knights Punisher by half – but really, I want Vic Sage back, and Renee as a regular person.

  16. Y’know, I feel like Humberto Ramos is part cheesecake. Actually, he’s more like those mini dutch pancake things you get from the vans at festivals and country markets, dripping with that fake maple syrup and doused with icing sugar, I’ll keep eating it up despite the unending horror that will be unleashed upon my digestive system because of it. Also, his art has prettily drawn woman pushed up at the camera.

    PS. Even though my question made it seem like I’m a reader of “Girls of Steampunk Halloween”, I just want to make it quite clear that I’m not.
    Not that there’s anything wrong with that, apart from the obvious that is.

  17. There was an underwear bomber, tried to set his panties on fire on a plane on Christmas day, 2009, I think? I don’t know if he’s had his trial yet. But Ian Brill is right, this new guy was an infiltrator who passed along Al Qaeda’s Undiebomb 2.0 to the authorities. Not the same guy.

  18. A.L. you are right, you are referring to Umar Farouk Absulmutallab http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Umar_Farouk_Abdulmutallab

    It does seem out of place to be discussing such things on a podcast dedicated to arts & entertainment, but I think it’s important that important real world events like these are not confused with similar ones. In the past I have certainly been as guilty of this as anybody else. I fear it’s a by-product of being so overloaded with info.

  19. Also I spelled “shoe bomber” as “show bomber” which means I may have confused Richard Reid with Crazy Harry from the Muppets. Yeesh, I’m the worst of all.

  20. Haven’t finished listening to it, but I kind of question the notion that Tim Hunter and Harry Potter are similar characters. Apart from the visual similarities, Hunter was a very, VERY different character.

    Like Graeme said, Hunter was never a kids’ character. There were some horrendous storylines with him that (outside of some very creepy fan fiction) could never be done with Potter. For example, that annual where we see an alternate reality where he’s stopped all time and decides that the best way to go about dealing with it is by fucking Molly (the girlfriend at the time) WHILE SHE IS FROZEN IN TIME. There also wasn’t any kind of “school” atmosphere, which is partially why I think Harry Potter was so successful–easier for kids to relate to. When they did try to move him to a magic school (Age of Magic), he was in his late teens…so lost opportunity again.

    While I agree that kids aren’t really reading comics, Tim Hunter was never intended for them. I know Peter Gross tried to build on the Potter fame in the last issue of the first series (Hunter is seen walking toward Platform 9 3/4) but the two characters just don’t mesh. And when Vertigo has tried to move Hunter past that (Age of Magic and Life During Wartime) they have completely lost the plot and moved the character even further into territory that is decidedly unfriendly for any kind of all-ages audience.

    This isn’t to say Books of Magic wasn’t great. One of my all-time favorite books that I obsessed over for years. I just don’t think him and Potter have any similarities.

    (apologies for meandering and non-coherence…at work and kind of distracted, but wanted to write this while it was still fresh)

  21. The Magical Question thing looks super-lame, but in googling that it also looks like they also turned Phantom Stranger into the Wandering Jew? Um. What the hell, DC?

  22. I haven’t looked at it in about twenty years, but I do recall the Wandering Jew business being mentioned in the Gaiman Books o’ Magic story.

  23. @moose n squirrel: Wasn’t the Phantom Stranger as Wandering Jew a possible origin put forth by Alan Moore in Secret Origins back in the day (along with three other possibilities, if I remember correctly)?


  24. Moose: I thought they were going for Judas (which isn’t any better). “Forgive me as he would,” the thirty pieces of silver turning into the Stranger’s necklace thing, etc.

    Still not quite as stupid as Immortal Question or Gun-Fu Pandora, though.

  25. Chris: Moore’s origin (broadly hinted at in the Swamp Thing annual where ST goes to Hell, then formalized in the Secret Origins issue) had the Phantom Stranger as an angel who refused to side with either God or Lucifer during Lucifer’s rebellion, and was cast out of Heaven for his indecision. Another story in that issue was a variation on the Wandering Jew.

    Personally, I think giving the Phantom Stranger any kind of definite origin misses the whole point of the character. But superhero comics have been answering questions nobody asked for at least twenty years (see also: James Howlett) so I guess it was the Phantom Stranger’s turn.

  26. Marc: Thanks for the clarification. It’s been a long time since I read those stories. And I think you hit the nail on the head with DC (and Marvel) answering too many questions. Phantom Stranger was supposed to be mysterious. Now, not so much.

    Paul Chadwick stated in an interview somewhere that he felt it was a mistake for him to give Concrete such a definite origin with the aliens and everything (again, this information is a bit muddled due to age) and, upon reflection, wished he would have left it alone.

    A similar argument can be made for the horror that was Highlander 2. You didn’t need some sort of “rational explanation” for them being immortal. They just were. the first movie laid out the rules and we were off and running. I love that first movie and have no need to understand how they came into being. Again, it misses the point of the wonder that comes from experiencing something new and unknown.


  27. @Chris Beckett

    Best example in history?


  28. J_Smitty – you just smote me in the heart with that.

    So true … so true.


  29. With Gail Simone, I think the big problem is that when she went from Marvel to DC, she really burned bridges over at Marvel, as she vocally bashed them while going over. I think she thought Didio’s reign was going to be far better for her than it actually was, and felt comfortable burning those bridges, so she called them a frathouse and other derogatory things. Now she pretty much HAS to make DC work for her because out of the big two, DC is probably the only one that will still have her. Plus, her actual writing is not good enough for Marvel to forgive her. Some writers are a big enough draw that you can forgive a lot of things they do and say. Not so much for Gail.

    So given that she burned bridges at Marvel and doesn’t have the skills everyone once thought she did, she really has to do the company stooge thing now to make up for those handicaps.

  30. One more issue: anyone else read the two Steve Gerber/ Michael Golden Mr. Miracle issues (vol. 1 24 & 25)? The book started moving in an interesting direction only to be cancelled. I think Gerber & Golden could have been worthy successors to the King.

    My other “if only:” Steve Englehart & Gene Colan on Dr. Strange. “Occult History of America” could have been a classic. One more issue wouldn’t have been enough to finish the story, but it would have been worth reading.

    Re the Question: The more New 52 DC I read, the less I like. I’m on board for the Flash & Action Comics, but the other titles I liked fizzled out. Batman has good art, but I’ve lost interest in the story. Same with Wonder Woman. Reading that the New Question is something I have no interest in is disappointing but not surprising.

  31. I think the comments that Gail Simone gets terrible artists ignores a few of her collaborators – Secret Six’s ongoing series launched with Nicola Scott on art, whose work was really good, and when she left she was replaced by Jim Califore, who is a solid artist and one of the better at the DC house style.
    (The mini’s had Brad Walker and Dale Dale Eaglesham, the former is terrible, the latter ok.)
    Birds Of Prey never struck my fancy, and Jodi Piccoluts WW left me needing a break from the character so I never got into Gail’s run on the character, but Secret Six was one of the better superhero comics, and possibly best team book, of the last few years. It never really took off and did big guns, but that doesn’t mean it wasn’t a superior book.

    “I think she thought Didio’s reign was going to be far better for her than it actually was, and felt comfortable burning those bridges, so she called them a frathouse and other derogatory things. Now she pretty much HAS to make DC work for her because out of the big two, DC is probably the only one that will still have her. Plus, her actual writing is not good enough for Marvel to forgive her.”

    Isn’t it possible that Marvel was a sexist frathouse at the time, and she called them that once she didn’t work there to get them to clean up their act?
    Millar spoke of doing the Trouble cover photo shoot – with two teen girls in bikini’s – in Quesada’s office, Jemas used to publicly slag off successful writers whose styles he personally didn’t like, and according to their story in interviews at the time, Quesada and Jemas came up with Wolverine: Origins whilst jamming on guitars in one of their basement’s or something – sounds more like a frathouse environment then a modern workplace.
    I can’t imagine a company holding a grudge over comments from a decade ago about the previous management.

    And, saying Simone isn’t good enough for Marvel… I just think you aren’t reading enough Marvel. Not only do they have a bunch of terrible crap that she could do more interesting stuff than, think of other writers at both companies, who were stagnant at one but just needed to swap sides and reinvigorate themselves.

  32. I also agree that The Avengers felt kind of hollow, both while watching and after. Not that it wasn’t enjoyable, but I got neither the sheer amusement out of performances and surprise at that (Iron Man) nor the “awww, the characters are not bad at all” (Thor, MI: Ghost Protocol). And again, during the whole set-piece battle in NYC, I couldn’t get past the “this is more damage and death than… you know”. Funny how a change of medium triggers that, as Marvel’s NYC gets the shite kicked out of it on a bi-weekly basis.

    But, but! I really want a copy of that research paper on trolling that was mentioned early on. Can you post a link if it’s publicly available (that is, not behind some Elsevier or JSTOR wall, since I can’t currently access the academic databases)? Two years ago when I was doing similar research, there were only two published papers on trolls (and one referenced the other). I can send along my paper, which was more about techniques to reduce flame wars and trolling (along the lines of http://academic.research.microsoft.com/Paper/1742155). Thanks!

  33. Sorry to hear you’re having trouble getting hold of Zombo, Jeff. I’d send you one of my spares, but I just moved house relatively recently and they’re lost somewhere in the piles of tat in the box room.

    If you were after the rest of the series you saw the first part of – not available in trade until likely towards the end of 2013, as me and Henry need to do Series 4 – you can get all the issues on DRM-free digital files at the 2000AD website. Currently the digital library goes back to (I think) Prog 1650 or so, which means all the Zombo except series 1, but I imagine in the fullness of time it’ll reach back further.

    Good luck in your Zombo quest!

  34. (Actually, I have thought of a meagre string I can pull to try and get you a copy, so I’ll try that.)

  35. Oh, and Johansen’s Russian accent… well, she had none. When she spoke Russian, it was with totally American pronunciation. As though she were told the French words and then said “bone jo-yur”. Cringe… .

  36. General thoughts on the ‘cast:

    Another enjoyable romp through the stream of consciousness that is Jeff & Graeme, our Whatnaut leaders. Thank you again, sirs, for doing what you do.

    Re: Scott Morse’s Soulwind. I love this book, and his work in general. He’s one of a handful of creators whose work I will pick up sight unseen every single time (Moore, Gaiman, Los Bros Hernandez round out that small group for me). And I have enjoyed just about everything he’s done.

    Soulwind is interesting for the fact that it is a broad, sweeping story that incorporates so many different elements (Irish fairies, King Arthur, Buddhist monks, self-aware robots, talking animals/creatures) and genres, and it works so well, in my opinion. Plus, it is one of his earliest comic works and is impressive for its ambition and scope for someone who was relatively young (I know he wasn’t yet 30 when he began it).

    I know it’s available as a complete 500+ page volume now, but I think it probably worked best in its initial 5-volume publication. Each of the first four books were able to stand on their own. And if there were any connections with previous volumes, those were subtle. And then, with the final volume, Morse managed to pull everything together rather well to complete what was one big story.

    I also appreciated the fact that Morse not only incorporated various genres into this story, but he also utilized a variety of art techniques in places to complement certain scenes. It is easily one of my all-time favorite comics, if you couldn’t tell.

    That said, I’m curious if either one of you checked out his latest series from IDW, Strange Science Fantasy. It was a 6-issue series that, again, had individual chapters that worked on their own until the big wrap-up with the final issue. It’s a love letter to 50s-60s Kirby/Ditko/etc. Marvel comics and a really fun story. If you enjoyed OMAC, I think this would be something you’d enjoy as well.


  37. Isn’t it possible that Marvel was a sexist frathouse at the time, and she called them that once she didn’t work there to get them to clean up their act?
    Millar spoke of doing the Trouble cover photo shoot – with two teen girls in bikini’s – in Quesada’s office, Jemas used to publicly slag off successful writers whose styles he personally didn’t like, and according to their story in interviews at the time, Quesada and Jemas came up with Wolverine: Origins whilst jamming on guitars in one of their basement’s or something – sounds more like a frathouse environment then a modern workplace.

    I’m not saying Marvel wasn’t a sexist frathouse. It definitely does seem like one, and i wasn’t defending them. What I’m saying is that she seemed far more willing to call out employers back then because (a) she was a super hot property at the time and people thought her career was going to be a bigger, more A-list career than it ended up being, and (b) she was highly in demand at both companies and in general at the time. So she probably felt like she could write her ticket anywhere. Now she’s probably persona non grata at Marvel and her star is shining considerably less brightly, both of which cause her to have far less options than before. So the same woman who was so quick to call out her Marvel employers now suddenly is much more of an apologist for her employers at DC, no matter how much something they does outrages fans.

    Whether or not what she said about Marvel was true, there are some very questionable behaviors DC has done that she has defended a lot and that’s my theory about why.

    I can’t imagine a company holding a grudge over comments from a decade ago about the previous management.

    It happens all the time in comics, especially when the person isn’t a “hot” property anymore. When you read a lot of industry blogs with behind the scenes stories you get shocked at how long pettiness can carry on. Look at problems people like Tony Isabella and Alan Moore still have with DC for example, and the original regimes they had problems with in both cases are long gone. And it isn’t that different a management over at Marvel. Joe Quesada is still a major player there, and so are Alex Alonso and Tom Breevort. Overall it’s still the same people, just shuffled around some in a case of executive musical chairs.

    And, saying Simone isn’t good enough for Marvel… I just think you aren’t reading enough Marvel. Not only do they have a bunch of terrible crap that she could do more interesting stuff than, think of other writers at both companies, who were stagnant at one but just needed to swap sides and reinvigorate themselves.

    You misunderstand me. I’m not saying that she’s not good enough for Marvel. I mean in general sure she’s not good enough to especially shine there, but she is good enough to be one of the lower-end writers there at least. She’s at least on par with Matt Fraction and above Jeph Loeb.

    What I was saying is that she’s not good enough a writer or big enough draw for them to overlook the bad press she gave them and put their grudge aside. Someone who was as big a name as Warren Ellis or Garth Ennis or Grant Morrison could probably bash Marvel in print and they would laugh it off in a heartbeat if that person wanted to come back to Marvel later because money talks. At the time Simone seemed like she was going to be a superstar of that level, and if it panned out I’m sure Marvel would overlook it if she came back in a heartbeat. But since she didn’t become a superstar of that level, I don’t think they would overlook it.

  38. Okay, here’s a big question. You mentioned that once the Image founders left Marvel, things floundered for Marvel. What would’ve happened if they never left? What if Marvel implemented the Vertigo-Gaiman deal and gave them an Epic line to do their work? Without Image, would Shooter have done Valiant or would DC have tried to wrangle Shooter back and bring in Valiant ideas into DC?

    Another possible conversation starter: What if instead of Karen Berger going to England to recruit British Writers she went to Brooklyn and got Run DMC or NWA into writing for DC. I have this image of Suge Knight holding Rob Liefeld over a building until he got the rights to Youngblood.

  39. Today I finally checked out a “What, what?” for the first time. Thought it was worthwhile. Keep it up, you two.

  40. What what
    in the

  41. The discussion of Superman’s heat vision made me think of this: http://www.astonishingtales.com/2012/05/the-pre-crisis-superman-fights-for-his-existence/

  42. “Without Image, would Shooter have done Valiant”

    He would. Valiant started in 1989.

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