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Wait, What? Ep. 98: Gorilla With An Eyepatch

Jeff Lester

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Gorilla with an eyepatch/ I know, I know/ It’s really serious… from Boom!’s Betrayal of the Planet of the Apes by Corinna Bechko and Gabriel Hardman

We are creeping ever-closer to magic number 100, as you are probably aware.  But, hey, why fixate on the future?  There’s every possibility the world could be thrown into cataclysmic upheaval, giving rise to a world of intelligent rifle-wielding apes that, as here, look cooler than all hell.

So let’s just pay attention to where we’re at, and what’s happening now, and also…show notes!

0:53-3:53:  Some tough work engagements for Graeme this week!  Let him tell you about it.
3:53-11:23:   For example, Graeme talks the Siegel-Schuster lawsuit and the recent article written about the Schuster side of the lawsuit.  For those of you who like Mr. McMillions when he’s having ambivalent feelings, these seven and a half minutes are for you.
11:23-19:48:  And then in this corner… Rob Liefeld vs. DC, just weeks after aggravating Marvel’s editors. Are you on Team Rob or Team Big Two? (Or is there no Team Big Two?)
19:48-22:41:  And then one of those wacky tech problems pop up and necessitate a call back.  Minor slight delay and then minor chitchat about the Internets.
22:41-38:18: Back to Rob Liefeld vs DC:  Graeme talks about why this story will blow things open wide for DC, while Jeff is not so sure.  It moves into a conversation about emotional attachments to creators, companies, and concepts.
38:18-42:28:  Challenged about what comics can be read in five minutes, Jeff talks briefly about the twelfth issues of Flash, Batwoman, and Wonder Woman, and compares them a bit with Batman, Inc. #3.
42:28-49:08:  Also, Jeff has lots of good things to say about the Betrayal of the Planet of the Apes trade paperback with gorgeous art by Gabriel Hardman (see above) and a strong script by Hardman and Corinna Bechko.  As an Apehead who’s late to this book, I have to say it’s pretty darn great.
49:08-56:26: And as we are on a recommending roll, Graeme recommends the first issue of Mark Waid and Chris Samnee’s Rocekteer: Cargo of Doom.
56:26-1:05:04:  And then, just to keep the balance, Graeme reviews Before Watchmen: Dr. Manhattan #1.  He… is not pleased. The phrase “eye-bleedingly bad” may end up being used.  A bit of stuff about BW: Rorschach is included for your enjoyment.
1:05:04-1:14:08:  Also under Graeme’s four color microscope, Amazing Spider-Man #692.  (Jeff requests you ignore most of his comments in this section as they are even more befuddled than usual. Thx.)
1:14:08-1:37:21:  Invited to talk about stuff he’s read and liked this week, Jeff declines and instead chooses to complain about…movies.  More specifically, Captain America The First Avenger which is on Netflix Watch Instantly. Also discussed: The Bourne Legacy and Battleship.
1:37:21-1:42:30:  Of course, that trifecta of movie cannot help but inevitably lead to Graeme talking about…Bunheads.  Well, sure.  Of course.
1:42:30-1:54:22:  And then, because somehow we end up out of time, we mention more comics we also find noteworthy SAGA #6, Fatale #7, Batman Inc. #3, Mind MGMT #4, and Glamourpuss #26.  Also some speedy head-scratching from Jeff about the Butcher Baker blow-up.  What does it mean to be a critical darling? Is there a “tastemaker” for comics on the Internet?
1:54:22-end:  And here is where we open up the question to you, our listeners:  have you ever bought a book based on something we said?  If so, what and how’d it go?  Who are the people in the comics blogosphere you consider tastemakers?  We want to know!  So you know…sound off in the comments, please.
Maybe this auditory apparition has haunted the forlorn witch-house called iTunes, perhaps not.  But you can cross the streams, so to speak (not recommended, I know), and also listen below:
Wait, What? Ep. 98: Gorilla With An Eyepatch
And, as always, thank you for listening!

31 Responses to “ Wait, What? Ep. 98: Gorilla With An Eyepatch ”

  1. Shownotes! Thank-you for rescuing me from watching America’s Next Top Model (this episode seems to be a subtle parody of Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom, with the shrill models sent to Morocco to insult local culture and be grossed out at the prospect of eating monkey brains and eyeballs), anyway, I pulled this up on Flipboard and it listed there being 47 comments already, making me wonder which editor you ticked off this episode.
    Seems it was just the app distorting reality, or perhaps forshadowing a 47 long debate on Leifeld V. DC. I’m not sure which side I’m on, I’ll have to wait and see how much bile the Bleeding Cool story produces.

    I know how Jeff feels about that certain worry that you’ve just read something too quickly, I blasted through a manga volume in 30 something minutes the other night while I’ve comics volumes on my bedside table I’m still reading over a year after starting. I’ve found listening to music as I read comics can offer a very satisfying experience, reading through Marvel’s Annihilation saga to X-Ray Dog (a band that puts out music of operatic, bombastic, trailer music) albums and various Star Wars comics to Star Wars brand soundtracks leaves me with a warm feeling of a comic well read. That goes for Amazing Spider-man too, perhaps the sounds of Danny Elfman’s Spidey score helps me overlook a lot of this problems Graeme has with that series. Slott’s Spider-man can’t help but win me over with its endearingly earnest and enthusiastic approach, it’s a book by a guy that LOVES Spider-man and New York, and if any book should bleed that joy from its pages it oughta be Spidey.
    It helps I dig all the Clone Saga stuff he draws in and the often great art choices that lead to situations where two amazing artists so stylistically dissimilar to one another like Humberto Ramos and Marcos Martin will have issues living right next to each other.
    Funnily enough I think I picked up Slott’s ASM because you guys were talking (poorly) about it back when it started. You chaps have caused me to buy the Brave and the Bold vol. 2 and Classic Star Wars Vol. 3 omnibi along with Vision and Scarlet Witch and a lot of Englehart stuff including the Secret Empire trade.
    You’re not the only trend setters out in the Comics Internet Bottle Universe though, David Brothers 4th Letter and Tumblr posts have led to me picking up all manner of comics, anime, manga and music. I’ve volumes of Ditko ASM, Cyborg 009 on my bedside table and dubious Lupin the Third and Cyborg009 DVDs because of him. Brandon Graham’s twitter feed is often a source of new discoveries too.
    I should really rebound some of this influence, so I’m reccomending that Jeff check out the recent Archaia publication “Conspiracy of the Planet of the Apes”. It’s a hardback novella, filled with astounding illustrations and sporting a swanky Steranko cover, which sets out to unify the Planet of the Apes continuity while telling you the story of what happened to the other -not Charlton Heston- Astronauts that crashed on that terrible planet of the apes during the first film.

  2. Oh, I’ve absolutely purchased based on your recommendations and others. Englehart for sure.

    Most of your negatives I would have generally avoided anyway so it’s more a “preaching to the choir” vibe.

    As to whether or not there are largely influential tastemakers I couldn’t say. I think on the internet certain people develop certain competencies or areas of strength that others turn to. Whether that’s an appreciable number – As Graeme mentions – is really the crux of the argument.

    The new Transformers flick is on my Bad Movie Tuesday schedule tonight. With our group I’m sure copious amounts of alcohol will improve the experience.

  3. I bought Bakuman, Double Barrell, and the Monkeybrain comics because of listening to this show. Additionally, I began using the library a lot more, thanks to Graeme.

  4. I bought Bakuman, Double Barrel and an issue of Jennifer Blood on recommendations from this podcast.
    Bakuman was an ehhh, so I had the same reaction Graeme had to initial volumes, Double Barrel was fun and Jennifer Blood wasnt for me. So you guys are at 1.5 for 3 with me.

    As far as other bloggers influencing me, Im sure Ive checked out a few things on Brandon Graham’s recommendation. Cant really think of anyone else. Oh, I did pick up an issue of BPRD on Tucker Stone’s recommendation, but that series still isnt for me.

  5. “Shuster”

    It might be my own biases, but I get the feeling that Graeme has very much swallowed the DC kool-aid in terms of his opinion of Toberoff. The percentage of Superman he seems to be poised to control if all his cases are successful might seem high (but still less than a majority), but as far as I can tell he was upfront about those percentages with the Siegel and Shuster heirs, and the numbers have been public for a while and both sets of heirs have chosen to stick with Toberoff despite serious attempts to undermine him from DC. What this tells me is that the settlement offers DC has made are pathetically low compared to getting even half of what a case with a strong lawyer on their side might get them.

    Graeme also has some details of the case wrong, here and in the Newsarama article. As I understand it:

    -Joe Shuster had two siblings, Frank and Jean.

    -His 1975 deal with DC included a pension for Frank of $5K a year after Joe died. This was never increased during Shuster’s life, though there were other increases to the 1975 deal.

    -After Shuster passed away, Frank and Jean contacted DC and got help with Shuster’s debts and also got the pension increased to $25K and paid to Jean instead of Frank. The last bit was probably at least partly because they thought Jean would outlive Frank (which she has) and that pension wasn’t, by 1975 agreement, transferable once the beneficiary passed. So they did get a better deal, though still a low one by “value of Superman” levels, and got them to sign a “this settles all claims” style contract. If they stuck to the letter of the 1975 deal, Frank would have gotten about $30k total (not sure exactly when he died, it seems to be about 1997). So far Jean (who seems to be still alive but very ill as of earlier this year) has gotten about $500k on the pension, plus another $100k+ in bonuses (which appear to have stopped when the legal filings started, presumably they’d have been about another 100k in the last decade otherwise).

    -After Jean’s son took over representing the estate and signed with Toberoff (before the Siegels signed with him, by the way), they got a much more generous offer (which they ultimately rejected), worth a minimum of four, and probably well over ten times the existing pension, and continuing to 2033, not stopping at Jean’s death. So even if they had to pay half of that to Toberoff they’d come out way ahead by choosing to file the copyright termination.

    Regarding Liefeld, there’s a case where no one comes out good. “Never wrestle with a pig. You both get all dirty, and the pig likes it”.

    DC is in a bit of an editorial mess, especially on the lower-tier books where Liefeld lives, so it’s not hard to understand why he would be frustrated, especially stuff like the Superman group scrapping the planned crossover meaning he had to scrap an issue of his book. It’s not hard to see Liefeld’s goal in all this. He gets a lot of “Hey, look at me!” time from fandom, which he can’t get on the merits of his work anymore. His three books are all in the lower 25% of the New 52, so a good bet that at least one, maybe all three, were going to be cancelled to make way for the next wave, so by leaving now he not only gets the “you can’t fire me, I quit” moment he loves (see his departure as an Image partner), but he keeps the stench of cancellation one-removed from him, instead of “Liefeld’s books were cancelled again” it’s “Liefeld left, and then the books were cancelled”, making it sound like his departure was the problem, not his presence. It’s almost cute, like he’s been reading Thirty-Six Stratagems For Dummies or The Idiot’s Guide to Sun Tzu or something and trying to apply it to his situation. Trying to undermine his editor is classic “usurp leadership in a situation where you are normally subordinate”.

  6. I bought two of the Monkeybrain series (Amelia Cole & Bandette) thanks to the two of you bringing it up. I also jumped on the SAGA train largely due to your glowing conversations about that book (Comixology giving away the first issue also helped).

  7. Graeme, a note from the only other guy who watched Bunheads. I enjoyed it mostly, but not sure I’ll return for the second season. I generally love the Sherman-Palladino dialog, but it can be cloying and annoying from anyone who is not Lauren Graham or Alexis Bledel. Sutton Foster sometimes isn’t good enough to pull it off, and isn’t hot enough to make up for it. You’re right, a heartbreaking last episode that was brutal for a “safe” network show, much less ABC Family. I like the show, but don’t love it. Yet.

    As far as picking up your recommendations, I got Bakuman from the library and enjoyed it. I’m up to Volume 4. I’m still looking for a copy of the “Trial of the Flash” Showcase and “Floating Classroom” is on the list. Truth to tell, I am already familiar with most of the comics you discuss and know if I am going to read them. I treasure the stuff you mention that I am unfamiliar with or have never heard of. Keep the reviews/recommendations coming, the more obscure the better.

  8. I’ve picked up BAKUMAN, DOUBLE BARREL, most of the MONKEYBRAIN line, KING CITY (found out the whole collection was online during the podcast, paused the show, and went and bought it on the spot), and CASSANOVA thanks to you guys – and Graeme crystalized my longstanding curiosity with 2000 AD into action, first by downloading a few choice issues from the site and then, when it was made available, taking out a digital subscription. (Again, I found out that this was finally an option because you guys talked about it.). So yeah, don’t short the reccomendations, guys-the audience is definitely there.

    As far as “tastemakers” goes – I don’t think so? I know there are reveiwers/comics newsjournalists/dudes on a microphone I trust – you guys (and Hibbs, of course), David Brothers, the House to Astonish chaps, John K(UK), Chris Bird when he talks comics – and there’s comics dudes who I enjoy reading/listening to, even if I don’t often agree – your Abhays, your Tim Callahans, your Tucker Stones. But as far as a pervasive voice who shapes the opinions of the Comics Internet (TM)? I say nay. Warren Ellis probably could have been, once upon a time, and the argument could be made that he still tries to be. But I think the comics internet is too dissonant for that.

    All in all, great show, gentlemen. Hope that helps, or at least doesn’t hinder.

  9. At one point, Jeff calls the Rocketeer the “Dave Sim’s Rocketeer” and suddenly I had this picture of the Rocketeer fighting the female void while captions dissects the Old Testament as it relates to the eerie death of Tristam Coffin.

  10. So I’m now going to try the Planet of the Apes comics on your recommendation, and I gave Prophet a second shot based on it, but…I can’t think of anything else off the top of my head.

    I definitely checked out King City on David Brothers’s recommendation, and I tend to look at what he says. Spurgeon occasionally gets a look, and…for me, it’s usually friends and my comic shop guy.

  11. For what it’s worth, I’ve bought a number of things based on your recommendations, almost always with positive results. If you guys wanna add “comic tastemakers” to your bios, I won’t give you shit about it.

    And Graeme’s reaction to Spider-man’s new sidekick makes me wonder whether or not he’s spent any time with teenagers lately. Self-centeredness and moral flexibility are kind of a given at that age, aren’t they? If you compare this latest issue of Amazing to the first act of Spider-man’s origin, this (ugh) Alpha character comes out looking much better than Spider-man, since the kid gets his powers while doing something that’s arguably heroic. While I agree this issue doesn’t work (especially for six bucks), I think Graeme’s being a little unfair to Dan Slott.

    Anyway, great podcast.

  12. Oh man, totally disagree about Captain America. I thought Chris Evans effectively played against type, I thought Joe Johnston redeemed himself for the horrible shit that was Jurassic Park 3 and the Wolfman, and I thought it was more or less pitch-perfect, nailed the character, and was Marvel’s best since the first Iron Man. Better than Thor, even, and I’m a Thor guy.

    My expectations weren’t high, the movie was delayed for like 20 mins because they couldn’t get the projector working, it really needed to knock my socks off, and it did. I wish Cap was written that way in the comics.

  13. Lessee, things I tried based solely on your discussions:

    – Word Balloon and Decompressed! podcasts
    – Bucko!
    – Essential Defenders for the Gerber years
    – Pulp – This is Hardcore

    I hope to try out Double Barrel, Oishinbo, and Dynamite’s Lone Ranger comics eventually.

    No movies though! You two are shockingly wrongheaded on action films. Ebert level wrong. Ghost Protocol?? Please.

  14. Things I bought because of this podcast (which isn’t helped considering I do my own orders on Diamond while I’m listening to you guys as I work at a comic store myself)….

    Bakuman – fantastic
    Jennifer Blood – this got so much better after Ennis left…
    Zaucer of Zilk – another blind purchase, carried by Graeme’s talking it up and Al Ewing being someone to pay attention to
    Crying Freeman – I think I had the first oooold Viz edition (I think?) of this, and I lost track of it until Jeff brought it up again
    Wolverine: Debt of Death – bought solely between Jeff and, I think?, Tucker Stone both mentioning the amazing art
    Mystic – I wound up buying the first two issues, and thought it was…ok. Nice art, in any case.
    Creeper Omnibus – was going to take a stand on my buying hardcover collections of stuff I’m not reading…and then I heard the show’s review.

  15. If you don’t mind (or even if you do), I’m going to talk about how I approach the recommendations made by members of the internet comics scene instead of naming who’s who, partly because most of the people I check out have already been mentioned and partly because some of what I have to say is not very kind to some of the people involved.

    I don’t have much to spend on comics. Because of this, I generally stick with comics creators that I already like. Sometimes I’ll check out an unknown creator on a bloggers recomendation, but more frequently I check out comics blogs to see what I should avoid. While it’s fun to dive into the unknown with comics, to check out new tallent or an interesting high concept, it’s not fun to waste $4 on a book that I might like only to be disapointed by weak storytelling or uneven art or whatever. The combination of a butt load of titles on the shelves and frequently a $4 price of entry means that I need help knowing what NOT to buy more that what people like. I used to have no problem buying a handful of titles that I knew little about every week because it didn’t cost much, but I don’t have $16 a week ($64 a month ($832 a year)) to “try books out.”

    Adittionally, there are some bloggers out there who seem to have no problem praising just about any piece of shit that lands in front of them. Or, they treat some really mediocre books like they’re some sort of comic book salvation. And these while these bloggers will ocassionally recommend something that I already really like or something that I think might be interesting, I have to consider the fact that they gave some licenced product, movie tie-in piece of money sucking garbage a 4 and a half star review and called it “awesome.”

    So if comics didn’t cost as much as they do, and if there weren’t so many websites out there full of glowing reviews of 90% of everything published, I’d be inclined to take more recommendations.

  16. I did get Bandette on your recommendation on the podcast. Other than that, I would say that Chris Sims still has some sway, and picked up X-Force based on Paul O’Brians, the big names in Internet Comics no longer write anything anymore. The only big names that still writes are David Brothers, but he has basically quit comics and Sims, but his output is way down and he no longer writes anything at ISB and is completely at Comics Alliance. The problem is that the day to day reviews are no longer done by anyone, and those reviews that are out there are either “OMG THAT WAS AMAZING!!!!!hire me marvel” or “OMG THESE BOOKS SUCK F-YOU DC” There seems to be no middle ground anymore.
    Also, since i know that at least one of them is reading this: while i like Wait What? better in general, House to Astonish actually reviews books.
    I think the problem facing the Comics Internet these days is that things have gotten very corporate, where the reviewers have gathered together into a smaller and smaller number of sites, writing smaller and smaller number of non-news articles.

  17. I have bought books based on your recommendation or because you discussed them and they sounded interesting. Without Wait, What? I wouldn’t have tried:

    Prophet & King City
    Habibi
    Waid’s Daredevil

    You guys have also made me revisit and reevaluate Kirby and 60’s & 70’s Marvel, which has led to me picking up a ton of Essentials.

    I think the obvious problem when you start talking about comic tastemakers, is that not many in the comic blogosphere have discerning tastes or astute critical faculties. You guys and House To Astonish are the only ones I follow who do serious, insightful reviews or critiques. As has been mentioned, most other comic reviews are either snarkfests or cut and paste fawn jobs. When you look at CBR and over three quarters of the reviews are 4-5 stars, it is hard to take seriously.

  18. I bought End of The Fucking World at MoCCA or Brooklyn Comics Fest or someplace like that last year because I remembered Jeff mentioning it. And I bought that Wolverine one-shot that Jeff raved about. And I watched Brad Meltzer’s Decoded because of Graeme.

  19. I didn’t realize it, but in hindsight I’ve actually bought quite a few comics based solely on the Wait, What recommendation:

    PROPHET – didn’t care for it.
    SAGA – ditto.
    THOSE ANNOYING POST BROS – still haven’t read it yet
    DOUBLE BARREL – love it, and look forward to every new issue
    MONKEYBRAIN – I enjoyed the few I bought, but the jury’s still out as I wait for issue twos to become available.
    GODZILLA HALF-CENTURY WAR – you guys are right, the craft is spectacular. Can’t say it’s the best comic ever, but I’ll buy issue two.

    And, as any good Internet echo chamber does, listening to you guys make me feel justified in my love of books like COBRA, DAREDEVIL and WOLVERINE & THE X-MEN (sorry, Jeff) and in my disdain for any Marvel or DC event book or anything by JMS.

    But despite your best attempts, I still like anything by Rucka, Fraction’s IRON MAN and Slott’s SPIDER-MAN.

  20. I forgot I bought that Wolverine one-shot because of You too. Meh. Although I do usually loves me some Aja.

  21. Add me to the people above who bought Debt of Death, King City, Double Barrel, End of the Fucking World, and sampled the MonkeyBrain titles based on Jeff and Graeme’s rave reviews.

    I’ve also dropped a few titles that I was on the fence about after listening to your critiques. Oddly enough, hearing Jeff talk about Batwoman convinced me to cut it from my pull list, even if Jeff couldn’t convince himself.

  22. Regarding comic recommendations – the main thing I appreciate most about your discussions of comics on the podcast is the fact that you two actually analyze what it is you like or dislike about a particular book. It gives me something to actually “hang my hat on,” so to speak and makes it easier to decide whether something you recommend is a book I would probably like. I’m more interested in story, and whether that story works or not, so you guys have done me a great service in many of the books you’ve recommended NOT purchasing due to problems you’ve brought up in your discussions. Thank you for that.

    As to books I’ve picked up on your recommendations. Most prominently would be KING CITY. I wasn’t even aware of Brandon Graham’s work. But upon your discussions of the book, I discovered that my LCS had bought all the issues and still had 2-12 in stock. So I gradually amassed that full collection in singles and thoroughly enjoyed it. From there, I’ve been getting Prophet and am looking forward to Multiple Warheads, the first issue of which I just pre-ordered. I’ve also been reading more Kirby (thanks in no small part to the recent influx of collections of his work) and have loved his LOSERS, OMAC, and KAMANDI work. I need to find that 70s Captain America stuff too, it seems, and am happy to have more good Kirby comics in my future.

    I know there are more, but those are the main things that come to mind right now. Thanks again for the podcast and all that entails. It’s much appreciated.

    chris

  23. Count me as another member of the Bakuman Army (well, to be totally accurate I already had the first volume, but hearing Jeff talk about it was the boot in the ass I needed to actually read the thing), and I got Zombo on you guys’ say-so too.

    On the other hand, those may be the only comics I’ve picked up on a commenter’s say-so; I seem to have burned out on cape, crime and horror books so badly that I’m only interested in hearing about them at one remove, and while I always enjoy hearing what Jog and Tucker have to say about Eurocomics or the idiosyncratic stuff out on the fringes, Jodorowsky excepted I just have no desire to actually seek that stuff out. If Brandon Graham, James Stokoe, and Grant Morrison all quit the biz I think that would pretty much wrap up my involvement with Western comics.

  24. comics i’ve bought on your recommendation:
    Bakuman (Thanks, Jeff!)
    Earth Two #1 (“Thanks,” Graeme…)

  25. Things I picked up because of the podcast:

    Saga – Love it.

    Double Barrel – Love it.

    Alabaster Wolves – great first issue. Didn’t think it really went anywhere. Also, having a whole issue with lyrics from a Johnny Cash song was a bit much for me.

    Memorial – After reading this and izombie, I’m not sure Chris Roberson is for me.

  26. I bought King City based on your rave reviews and enjoyed it. I got Flash 1-6 at a sale based on what you said about it. I’ll happily pick up the rest of the series next sale, uneven as it was (but worth it for the art, definitely). I’d dropped Batman but picked it up again afte Jeff’s epic Owls Are Chiller speech. I bought Double Barrel recently, and look forward to reading it.

    Unfortunately, I think critics and bloggers have little sway over comic book readers. The number of overly positive reviews of just about everything others pointed out above doesn’t help. I don’t think most super-hero fans care about reviews, and most indy comics that don’t feature genre staples sell to a very small number of people no matter what (with a very few obvious exceptions like Maus and Fun Home). For untold years, the Internet wasn’t a factor; we bought what looked good, featured our favorite characters, was made by our favorite creators, and/or was recommended by friends or guys at the store. Maybe Wizard would steer us toward the latest polybagged

  27. masterpiece. It’s possible that reviewers are less influential than the factors I listed, with Wizard being replaced by Internet hype.

    (sorry for the broken post; finger hit Post before I was done)

  28. From Jeff’s “recommendation” I recently picked up the run of Skull the Slayer…

    Good stuff too though like Englehart’s Cap run and Gerber’s Defenders.

  29. Glamourpuss – picked up because of Jeff’s frothing, and became addicted. So thanks for that.

  30. Doble Barrel and Saga are titles I picked up on Jeff’s recommendation.

  31. I paused the podcast to watch the last episode of Bunheads. It really is a great show…so put me on the list of people watching it and reading comics. It is the strangest show on television as it jumps between moods so easily, but Sutton Foster is fantastic. Thanks, Graeme!

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