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Arriving 8/29/12

Brian Hibbs

Much more comics than the last two weeks — and lots of DC annuals.

2000 AD #1788
2000 AD #1792
2000 AD #1793
AMERICAN VAMPIRE #30
ANGEL & FAITH #13
AQUAMAN #12
AVENGING SPIDER-MAN #11
AVX VS #5 (OF 6)
AXE COP PRESIDENT O/T WORLD #2 (OF 3)
B & V FRIENDS DOUBLE DIGEST #228
BATMAN BEYOND UNLIMITED #7
BEFORE WATCHMEN MINUTEMEN #3 (OF 6)
BIONIC WOMAN #3
BPRD HELL ON EARTH RETURN O/T MASTER #1 (OF 5)
CAPTAIN MARVEL #3
CROSSED BADLANDS #12
DEBRIS #2 (OF 4)
DETECTIVE COMICS ANNUAL #1
DOMINIQUE LAVEAU VOODOO CHILD #6
DUNGEONS & DRAGONS FORGOTTEN REALMS #3
FERALS #8
FF #21
FLASH ANNUAL #1
FUBAR SUMMER SPECIAL ONE SHOT
GAMBIT #2
GODZILLA ONGOING #4
GOON #41
GREEN HORNET #27
GREEN LANTERN ANNUAL #1
HELLRAISER #17
HIGHER EARTH #4
HULK #57
INFERNAL MAN-THING #3 (OF 3)
JOURNEY INTO MYSTERY #642 BURNS
JUSTICE LEAGUE #12
JUSTICE LEAGUE INTERNATIONAL ANNUAL #1
LIL HOMER #1
LOCKE & KEY GRINDHOUSE ONE SHOT
LORD OF THE JUNGLE #7
MORNING GLORIES #21
MUDMAN #5
NATIONAL COMICS LOOKER #1
NEW DEADWARDIANS #6 (OF 8)
NEW MUTANTS #48
PHANTOM LADY #1 (OF 4)
POPEYE #4
POWERS #11
PROPHECY #3
PROPHET #28
RED SONJA #68
SIXTH GUN #24
SKULLKICKERS #17
SONIC THE HEDGEHOG #240
SPACEMAN #9 (OF 9)
STAR TREK TNG DOCTOR WHO ASSIMILATION #4
STAR WARS DARTH MAUL DEATH SENTENCE #2 (OF 4)
STEED AND MRS PEEL ONGOING #0
SUPERMAN ANNUAL #1
SUPERMAN FAMILY ADVENTURES #4
THE LONE RANGER SNAKE OF IRON #2
TMNT MICRO SERIES #7 APRIL
TRIO #4
ULTIMATE COMICS X-MEN #15 DWF
UNCANNY X-FORCE #30
VALEN OUTCAST #8 MAIN CVRS
WARLORD OF MARS DEJAH THORIS #14
WEB OF SPIDER-MAN #129.2
WINTER SOLDIER #9
WITCHBLADE #159
WOLVERINE AND X-MEN #15 AVX
X-O MANOWAR (ONGOING) #4
X-TREME X-MEN #2
YOUNG JUSTICE #19

Books / Mags / Stuff
COURTNEY CRUMRIN SPEC ED HC VOL 02
GREEN LANTERN ARCHIVES HC VOL 07
GUARDING THE GLOBE TP VOL 01 (RES)
IRREDEEMABLE TP VOL 10
JOURNEY INTO MYSTERY TP VOL 01 FEAR ITSELF
JUDGE DREDD MEGAZINE #326
KIRBY GENESIS TP VOL 01
PENNY ARCADE TP VOL 08 MAGICAL KIDS IN DANGER
PETER PANZERFAUST TP VOL 01 THE GREAT ESCAPE
PREVIEWS #288 SEPTEMBER 2012 (NET)
RESURRECTION MAN TP VOL 01 DEAD AGAIN
REX MUNDI OMNIBUS TP VOL 01
RIVEN TP
SHOWCASE PRESENTS TALES OT UNEXPECTED TP VOL 01
SONIC SAGA TP VOL 01 DARKEST STORM
STAR WARS OMNIBUS CLONE WARS VOL 01 REPUBLIC WAR TP
TEENAGE MUTANT NINJA TURTLES CLASSICS TP VOL 02
THE LONE RANGER TP VOL 05 HARD COUNTRY
ULTIMATE COMICS ULTIMATES BY HICKMAN TP VOL 01
VINTAGE MARVEL COMICS 2013 12 MONTH WALL CALENDAR
X-MEN LEGACY TP FIVE MILES SOUTH OF UNIVERSE

What looks good to YOU??!?!?!

 

-B

16 Responses to “ Arriving 8/29/12 ”

  1. I have to say, the random assortment of 2000 AD issues that Diamond deigns to ship on any given week is always a hoot.

    I think this issue of MUDMAN finishes up what will be in the first book, so I’ll probably pick that up and then switch over to either trades or digital. That running months late schedule doesn’t really do it for me.

    I’d have been more excited by that SHOWCASE TALES OF THE UNEXPECTED a year ago, before all the Kirby content in it was reprinted in colour, but it still has stuff like this which guarantees I’ll buy it.

  2. LAST WEEK

    INVINCIBLE #94
    By “proud liar and fraudster” Robert Kirkman and artists Ottley and Walker. This was a nice merging of the two recent split plots. Zandale got some defining moments playing his new role of Invincible while Monster Girl and Robot reap what they have sown via their centuries long social engineering experiment in the Flaxan dimension. The two artists played very well off each other and the length and weight of this read puts it on the level of some of the best Roger Stern 80’s Spidey.

    ROCKETEER CARGO OF DOOM #1 (OF 4)
    While we’re all streaming fountains of angst for Tony Moore and his hyperbole laden 2nd lawsuit let’s not forget to weep big, big tears for Jon Small. He, of course, was one of the original creators of Bulletman who most probably inspired Republic’s “King of the Rocketmen” whose visual design (attributed to the not so anonymous Lydecker Brothers) definitely inspired Dave Stevens to steal it outright along with several other concepts and characters from Doc Savage, The Shadow, etc. Dear old Dave even went so far as to not name them so as to avoid those pesky problems of ownership and rights. But, you know, since it’s a “loving homage” from a guy who “drawed it real purty” why burden your enjoyment with worrisome thoughts about Jon Small or the clay feet of a beloved artist? Besides, I’m sure those Bettie Page likeness checks were delivered in a timely fashion.

    AHEM

    Anyway, lest anyone think I’m saying it’s a sticky wicket to “Go Broad” when choosing where and in whose name you enforce your sense of moral outrage I’ll move right along.

    Waid’s having fun here with the mooks (Oho, methinks THE MASTER is yet another unnamed Doc Savage character – villain John Sunlight). I like how we get snippets of pertinent back story that remove the generic aspect of these goons. And, once more in the borrowed intellectual property department, the mind control process heavily referenced as having damaged The Master’s chief enforcer is / was always one of Doc’s favorite tools for righting wrongs.

    Yes, yes, somewhere along the way someone bought the rights to The Rocketeer (as “created” by Stevens) and the Pulp stuff as well so it’s all nice and tidy I’m sure. Now, if only “Proud Liar and Fraudster” Robert Kirkman had the foresight to offer an agreed upon monetary settlement with Tony Moore all that trouble would have been….ooooooh.

    Moving on. In the art arena, Samnee’s work is once again declared champion. “ARE YOU NOT ENTERTAINED?!” Whether it’s intuitive or the product of extreme devotion he is really putting himself in the top tier of artists doing the comic book scene. For the record, I think it’s devotion.

    INVISIBLES OMNIBUS HC
    This was $150 and my guy didn’t order any copies so I was spared for the moment. Talk about cost prohibitive. I’ll really need to do some research to see what’s what…

    JACK KIRBY’S FOURTH WORLD OMNIBUS TP VOL 03
    Just cracking this but it feels like more of that great and frenetic power. As his own editor Kirby truly was a dangerous and expressive force.

    THIS WEEK

    Let me first say, please continue to check in on the Monkeybrain books via comixology. The irregular pub schedule makes it easy to forget!

    BPRD HELL ON EARTH RETURN O/T MASTER #1 (OF 5)
    Dropping in for a sampling of BPRD. Consistently good material. Wondering why anyone would find the need to abbreviate “of the” with O/T. Good job, Diamond!

    PROPHET #28
    Graham’s blog has some really cool stuff on the upcoming issues so check it out. With the news of Mssr. Liefeld’s DC departure I have only one thing to say. Strike up the auto-tune if you please, “Hide yo Prophet! Hide yo Glory!”

    SPACEMAN #9 (OF 9)
    The end is upon us. Let’s see if it has anything resembling a cogent closing argument about celebrity, duty, morality, and responsibility…tall order. Damn it, I can’t think of anything for an Azzarello related pun.

    X-O MANOWAR (ONGOING) #4
    Train kept a rollin’. Found some old Valiant trades on the half price shelf. The Solar Alpha/Omega almost seems like an offshoot genre. Interesting and excellent BWS art.

    Thanks last week for the pick me up, fellas. I promise that this will mark my last foray into the Kirkman / Moore issue on these boards. At this point it’s fair to say I have locked on to an opinion and that’s pretty much that. Happy reading, everyone.

  3. Not a bad week coming. However, after having read this:

    http://ifanboy.com/articles/comic-book-casting-the-image-7/

    ….I’ve been consumed with deciding who would star in SAVAGE CRITICS: The Movie (*). So as I try to stave off mental and physical exhaustion from that arduous decision, I will try and get this penned out.

    AMERICAN VAMPIRE #30 – just a great meld of art and story.

    BEFORE WATCHMEN MINUTEMEN #3 – As you all know I accept there are parts of the business which aren’t very nice, and was okay ethically with indulging my curiosity about these books. It has become clear, however, that these books are not rising to the challenge, and have not much to say. And yeah, Before Watchmen: Moloch really pushed me off the fence on this. I say thee DROPPED. I am not judging the artists, but rather the art, which is what my ethics told me to do.

    (To be fair, I might see Silk Specter through to the end… Just to start a thread: despite the M rating hidden on the cover, I wonder how much crap DC Ent is going to take once somebody notices issue 2 has boobies, orgies, a pretty clear and aproving mention of statutory rape and on camera heavy drug use. All while Black Kiss 2 is being intercepted at the borders of the UK. But I digress)

    BIONIC WOMAN #3 – Paul Tobin did a great interview before he started this book and said all the right things. It has, suprisingly, been stronger that BIONIC MAN; the story has been more suited to the comics medium than what Kevin Smith was trying to shoe-horn in, and the art is a pleasure. BUT….at my suburban LCS I pay for preorders, and this book is some six issues in arrears for actually putting those copies I’ve paid for in my hands. Not the talent’s fault I expect, but that burns up goodwill in a big bloody hurry Dynamite.

    CAPTAIN MARVEL #3 – …speaking of goodwill. I bought this for Kelly Sue deC, even if the art was not to my taste, being an odd Brereton meets Bisley sort of thing except it only used half the color pallet. And #1 was…OKAY. But there were a few narrative moments that really wowed. So I bought #2 off the rack. Even if time travel to WW2 is about as tired and hacky-sacky a plot device as there is, this was pushing towards VERY GOOD. So if this book keeps improving as it has, and keeps being so clearly personal to its writer, I’ll be around for a long time.

    LORD OF THE JUNGLE #7 – the use of Kubert style pencils on the last few issues has been most welcome. Miss ya’ Joe.

    NEW DEADWARDIANS #6 – and this, which started at a warm GOOD has really been firing for the last few issues. I am REALLY liking it.

    PHANTOM LADY #1 – as you’all may remember, I really enjoyed the UNCLE SAM series by Gray and Palmiotti. It was like Brad Melzer’s Decoded with super-heroes, if Decoded didn’t suck. And Stormy Knight was perhaps the most interesting twist for that iteration of the team. This stealth fielding of the Freedom Fighters in the nu52 has my attention, even if I wonder whether there isn’t other IP DC might have dusted off first.

    PROPHET #28 – TOTALLY. All you good folks out there who haven’t bought the trade for a paltry ten bucks could always try comixology through Brian’s portal and get the first ‘new’ issue for free.

    SPACEMAN #9 (OF 9) – Now I can read them!

    THE LONE RANGER SNAKE OF IRON #2 – Chuck Dixon is not often to my taste, but I really liked last issue, and am back for this one. It really delivered nicely, and probably got an added boost by compasrisson as the “Tonto” arc in the main book is really too slow, and frankly, not very interesting.

    WINTER SOLDIER #9 – well, crap. Loving this VERY GOOD series while I can.

    But now ** I ** have a question for you guys: the LCS closest to my work, the world famous ‘Golden Gastropod’ (**) is having their “every back issue for a buck” sale. What recent runs of things from say, the last year or four, should I try to pick up? What would YOU buy?

    Wishing each and every one of you a Happy Jack Day.

    COMICS! They sell THEMSELVES is what I hear!

    ——————–

    (*) Lest I be derided as a liar and a fraudster I should come clean that I really spent about two minutes tops thinking about that. But I do wonder who might play John K… Jude Law perhaps? And a shorn Jeff Goldblum as the waffle-loving Mr Lester would be “interesting”.

    (**) Not their real name, but a clever zoological pseudonym. This is a blog from a nice store in San Fran, run at their effort and expense, so it seems cheeky to plug the local too much, esp as Brian is trying to sell those digital funnybooks.

  4. Wow, what an odd week… so the DC annuals are essentially functioning as a “fifth week” event (along with catch-ups from the lagging-behind-schedule Aquaman & JL)? With all the hullaballoo about the #0s, I didn’t even realize they were coming out.

    I *may* be picking up the new PROPHET, but this is yet another case where rapid-and-cheapified TPB collection is convincing me to trade-wait. ($9.99 for six issues? For those of you who ain’t been following it, that’s a STEAL, and makes me feel like a sucka for dropping 18 bucks on the singles, PLUS another $9.99 to keep it on the bookshelf.)

    And @J_Smitty, I *really* can’t figure what you’re on about with your ROCKETEER comments. Do you really think “guy with a rocket pack / helmet” was CREATED by the Republic serials? It was a hoary old pulp sci-fi cliche even by nineteen-forty-whatever; Republic just (maybe) committed it to film first.

    And the nudge-nudge, wink-wink references to Doc Savage and The Shadow? You are aware that there are broad, broad protections for references to fictional characters and real people when they can be construed as parody, and that the standards for trademark infringement tend to be pretty high? That’s why MAD Magazine can goof on films and characters without getting permission, and why something like Robert Mayer’s SUPERFOLKS gets away with not just referencing Superman, Batman, etc. but calling them out *by name* — not to mention the superhero porn parodies that count on Warner Bros. and Marvel not risking to even *further* broaden the already strong protections of Campbell v. Acuff-Rose Music, Inc. (the infamous Supreme Court case that decided in favor of 2Live Crew’s filthy-mouthed skewering of Roy Orbison’s “Pretty Woman.”)

    And, to answer the begged-question: YES — I’d say the picaresque, mock heroics of THE ROCKETEER definitely include parodic elements since its core story puts its opportunistic, “small potatoes” lead in situations where the “real” pulp heroes become antagonists and stumbling blocks.

    Besides, what any of that has to do with TWD lawsuit is an absolute mystery to me. Is George Romero claiming that it’s “DAWN OF THE DEAD: The Series?” Are the Siegel & Schuster families going after INVINCIBLE? Because otherwise, there’s no comparison.

  5. LAST WEEK
    …didn’t make it into the store. But I’ll be looking to pick up MIND MGMT and the AMAZING SPIDEY anniversary thing when I go in tomorrow to pick up…

    GREEN LANTERN ANNUAL #1 – This one’s on serious probation, but the return of Ethan Van Sciver will force my hand

    INFERNAL MAN-THING #3 (OF 3) – I’m trade-waiting here, because the material was originally intended for a graphic novel. Still killing me not to pick these up because I never thought there’d be new Steve Gerber comics just sitting there for me

    NEW DEADWARDIANS #6 (OF 8) – I’m with Corey on this in that it keeps growing on me. The new sleeper hit from Vertigo that I wish more people were buying

    POWERS #11 – Speaking of serious probation…I’m on board for this final issue of the current storyline, and I’ll give the 1st issue of the relaunch a try, but I don’t buy the idea that the sporadic delays here are warranted while he churns out a bunch of Marvel books that are, if you believe the hype, in no way of lesser quality, but sell 6 times as much. If it comes from a personal place it should if anything be easier

    SIXTH GUN #24 – Hoping Cullen Bunn’s Marvel work brings some more readers to this underrated and underselling book

    X-O MANOWAR (ONGOING) #4 – Liked the 1st issue, haven’t read it since, but I’m liking the other books of the Valiant relaunch and the overall conception of the line, so I’ll give it another try

    And J Smitty…keep doing what you’re doing and don’t worry about it. I enjoy your posts (and especially the LAST WEEK in comics idea) and I think that in general the “regular gang” that comments on the “Arriving…” posts are gracious gentlemen that voice informed opinions. On some of the other SavCrit comment threads, sometimes not so much. And if anyone wants to troll me on my overuse of three dots to link things…I totally deserve it

  6. @Dock

    The only comparison I really set out to make was one of muddy creator rights waters leading (or in the case of Rocketeer not leading) to a degree of “outrage.” So yes, it’s a valid comparison on those terms. I played it up a little bit because hyperbole and vitriol tend to exaggerate a point as former Golden Gloves boxer and Tony Moore attorney Devin McRae well knows.

    The obsession with making sure one thing is exactly identical to the other in these discussions doesn’t bode well here but I’ll soldier on briefly and try to bridge the divide.

    Did Republic invent the idea? No, maybe Jon Small did. He’s so far back the food chain that he kinda linked it to the Buck Rogers gravity belt thing. But as to the Republic property you can’t deny all the design elements are pretty much a straight lift with flourishes.

    http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_7Q1kC2yCtSA/S09WPr4QuRI/AAAAAAAAAIY/LRGpQ9R_Dc4/s1600-h/Screen+shot+2010-01-14+at+11.36.31+AM.png

    I am aware of the protections afforded parody material post 2live crew and other decisions. Also, the ramifications of Biz Markie v G. O’Sullivan as it pertains to the cost of licensing.

    As to your “Broad, broad protections” assertion I am also aware of those but what I was putting forward had more to do with drawing attention to the hypocrisy at play in a system so constructed that the guy who offers negotiated and agreed upon considerations (Kirkman) for legal rights gets hauled into court when someone who whole cloth cannibalized characters, lifted designs, and basically existed at the end of a fifty year chain of intellectual pulp property is revered and or given a pass.

    At the best we get Dave Stevens art and Paul’s Boutique out of it. At the worst we get your mentioned butchering of music via Vanilla Ice et al and “Haha, it’s a joke…it’s all a joke” porno.

    (It should be mentioned that Stevens did help Page collect likeness rights and other payments for reproductions of her work toward the end of her life. Whether that included her reproduction in his own work I confess, I don’t know. Still, that’s certainly one in the plus column for Stevens.)

    The last thing I’ll say about it is that creations have a beginning. It’s our choice to see how far we’re willing to follow the rope and / or how clear we’re willing to make the trail. If, at the end of the Kirkman / Moore chain, it’s discovered that deciding how to draw a sheriff named Rick and then doing that at the direction of another person for 6 issues of a comic does not entitle one to an unearned fortune I wonder what will be said about it? As you said, it begs the question.

    Dock sparked an amazing thought in passing…what if Alan Moore did a straight Watchmen sequel but because it might actually be good he could get away with calling it a parody of Before Watchmen? I think maybe this was actually mentioned on a “Wait, What?”

    If I have confused or, as a product of my own muddy thinking on the subject, aggravated you in anyway – dear reader – I do apologize.

  7. Comical periodicals! They’re an original American art form like jazz and pogs!

    AMERICAN VAMPIRE #30
    (It’s okay.)
    INFERNAL MAN-THING #3
    (Whatever knows sense waits for the trade!)
    MUDMAN #5
    (Paul Grist! Upsetting people with the deadlines he’s missed! Like a spell I made it rhyme so next time he may be on time!)
    POPEYE #4
    (Only an aminal wouldst nots be readingks this! Arf! Arf!)
    PROPHET #28
    (They should have called it JOHN.)
    SIXTH GUN #24
    (James Woodward is right, this is a good book! Woodward would, would you?)
    SPACEMAN #9
    (Risso’s doing BEFORE WATCHMEN: MOLOCH is he? Who’s doing BEFORE WATCHMEN: THAT LESBIAN COUPLE THAT QUARRELED A BIT? Steranko?)

    SUPERMAN FAMILY ADVENTURES #4
    (My Boy likes this! A lot! He likes it a lot!)
    TRIO #4
    (or What If Alan Moore Had Never Happened)

    @J_Smitty: I don’t know about the Kirkman/Moore thing. I was okay until Edwin Brubaker said Tony Moore was rich too. Now I need to know who’s richest so I know who to hate. jokey! I just don’t have enough info yet. I’m okay about Alan Moore and Jack Kirby but anything else and, like Ash in ALIEN, I’m still collating. You set out your stall though, it’s very interesting!

    @Corey (Ottawa): Jude ****ing Law! Oi! Leave it out! Bearing in mind that I have never met any of the Savage Critics and they could probably all rob me at gunpoint and I wouldn’t recognise them. (I’m not suggesting that they do that, by the way.) I think the truest casting would be: Brian Bosworth (One Tough Bastard) as Gentle Jeff Lester, Michael York (Zeppelin) as Graeme McMillan, Jon Voight (Runaway Train/Anaconda) as Brian Hibbs, Brad Dourif (Wiseblood) as Tucker Stone and featuring Nicolas Cage (Wild At Heart) in the role of “Abhay Khosla”. Obviously, I would be Daniel Craig (Casino Royale). Oh alright, David Thewlis (Naked,no, not a naked David Thewlis, David Thewlis as he is in the feature film presentation Naked. But less sunny of disposition.)

    As for Corey (Ottawa)’s back issue dollar bargains:

    DIE HARD: YEAR ONE. That was good stuff with a strong 70s NY set script (why, it was almost as though he had been there personally!) by HVC. Art’s not great but it’ll do ya.

    Marvel’s JOHN CARTER OF MARS: A PRINCESS OF MARS by Langridge and Andrade and JOHN CARTER: GODS OF MARS by Sam Humphries and Ramon Perez are nice solid stuff with sweet art.

    I can see those being marked down and well worth a punt. I miss going in comic shops and physically scrounging through their longboxes. Sigh. Anyway, do let us know what you get!

    In the future there will no longer be war only COMICS!!!

  8. @Corey – With your love of AmVamp I would think some of the BPRD stuff would be a good fit. Characterization in them is generally some of the best I read on a monthly.

    I also suggest seeing if they’ve got some Phonogram laying about.

  9. For Dock:

    PROPHET only sells about 6k copies, nationally, as a comic — that’s the kind of sales that if you “trade wait”, there probably won’t BE a trade.

    (Man, I sell like 3/4 of 1% of the print run? There’s your depressing thought for the day)

    @Corey:

    For a buck, I’d be looking to get any Golden Age or SIlver Age comic they might have… but that’ not what you meant, I suspect. Look for the 1980s run of SUICIDE SQUAD or HAWKWORLD — great reads, but not worth much more than a buck, really.

    -B

  10. Oh, and Corey? You can mention the Silver Snail, if you like :)

    -B

  11. @Smitty: Dude, if it wasn’t clear, I don’t think you’re just comparing apples to oranges; I think you’re comparing apples to Denebian slime molds. Different worlds, different kingdoms. In the case of THE ROCKETEER, I don’t think there *are* any “muddy creator rights waters.” In every example you cite, I think Stevens was *clearly* working well within both his legal and *moral* rights as an artist.

    I don’t know about you, but I don’t want to live in a world where FLEX MENTALLO gets locked in a vault forever because Charles Atlas is unhappy, or where Joe Lansdale’s JONAH HEX: RIDERS OF THE WORM & SUCH gets wished into the cornfield because the Winters Bros. take offense. Part of being a writer / artist is having the freedom to comment on the world around you, and part of that is being able to comment upon, riff on, or appropriate elements of other cultural artifacts. I mean, c’mon, THE WALKING DEAD wouldn’t exist to be fought over without Romero’s inspiration, just as INVINCIBLE wouldn’t exist without Siegel & Shuster’s groundbreaking efforts. That doesn’t mean that these titles aren’t essentially original creations; just that every writer & every artist succeeds because they stand on the shoulders of giants. A dispute of two former collaborators about who created & is owed what? That is an entirely separate realm of “creator rights.”

    (And P.S., in terms of Doc Savage and The Shadow — WHAT creator rights? Those are both corporate-owned entities where not a single penny of royalties / licensing fees / etc. goes to any actual human or descendant of same responsible for the actual stories/art/concepts that built the franchise. Sure, there are COPYrights involved, but not “creator rights.”)

  12. J_Smitty: for what it’s worth i appreciate your views on such things. I think if Jeff had started Wait, What with another guy for the first six podcasts, then replaced him with Graeme (“We need more accents!”), and continued to build the show for the next few years, he might be more sympathetic to the idea that the guy who keeps the thing going, and builds it into a success, deserves more credit than just splitting everything with a guy who left 90+ podcasts ago.

    (And for the literal minded like Dock: replace “podcast” with “comic book issues”)

  13. “Denebian slime molds”

    Star Trek, gotta love it. Woulda been a lot better with constant references to pop culture artifacts instead of actual culture though (sarcasm / face palm).

    “Part of being a writer / artist is having the freedom to comment on the world around you, and part of that is being able to comment upon, riff on, or appropriate elements of other cultural artifacts.”

    So, it’s part of a part…like an eighth? Sixteenth? Because, I think an occasional nudge or a wink is one thing but gulping so heavily from the “other people’s ideas” cup is just crappy storytelling.

    Everything is shorthanded for you by swiping a wholly formed idea and injecting it into your story. Guy with a very specific jet-pack and costume design being done to death doesn’t absolve Stevens of the swipe it just implicates him further.

    I mean, we love the homage because it’s the easiest way to drum up warm nostalgic feelings. It’s certainly not original and shouldn’t be treated with kid gloves when it comes to rights infringement. Why Rocketeer is looked at as anything other than gorgeously illustrated fan-fic is a mystery to me…but it’s a divergent pole of the argument anyway. Back to Kirkman/Moore.

    I don’t buy it at all. Do we say that Kirby succeeded because he stood on the shoulders of guys like Martin Nodell or Jon Forte?

    Invincible is so utterly divorced from Superman as a concept in principle and execution it would take an essay to explain it. The character beyond “Guy with powers” is several continents removed from the Superman idea and has only gotten more so over the course of the hundred issues.

    As to the Walking Dead no other author has given over 2300+ pages to the exploration of the scenario. Sure, Romero-esque, I guess – but none of those Romero movies explored what it was like to live with this thing for days and years. The “people” in those flicks weren’t characters they were and remain cultural stereotypes. Hell, the original Romero movie never even used the word “Zombie.” That came later and from Haitian cross pollination.

    To the point of creator rights in the Doc and Shadow properties the creator is the company because they hired Lester Dent (among others) and he agreed to do the work.

    Your point doesn’t hold up because as it’s structured corporations can and DO hold creator rights. Graeme’s beloved Gilmore Girls are the “creation” of Alloy Entertainment. As are the Vampire Diaries. They commissioned the work. Refined it. Shopped
    it. When it failed initially, they rebuilt it, etc etc. The company is the creator, not just the owner. This still goes on and you will see more and more of it because these companies have the capital to put down. Yeah, it’s kinda gross feeling but some aspiring writer is always gonna take the gig because a freelancer’s gotta eat and pay the bills, man.

    Moore signed over rights for considerations. Checks HE CASHED. That means he’s out of the rights / 50% business and into the business of getting only what he is allowed under the negotiated agreement. I’m not saying he shouldn’t get that. I’ve only ever said that it’s crap to think he should get more than that because he made a choice. Yes, get to the bottom of the accounting issues, ABSOLUTELY. But co-ownership?

    Until I hear that Kirkman switched the paperwork, forged his signature, or pulled some straight up Mr. Potter shenanigans I’m going Willy Wonka HAM on Tony Moore’s claims. What are we, four? Are “do-overs?” and mulligans required in actual adulthood?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xKG07305CBs

    Again, this is getting way more entrenched and “angry” than I wanted. This is just my view and when this thread goes away I won’t be saying anything more about this issue specifically. Best to everyone (Dock very much included) and thanks!

  14. “the creator is the company”

    No, it really isn’t. That’s just not a standard use of the word “creator”, even for work-for-hire (see the beginning of almost every TV show, where the credit “created by” is followed by the name of a person, never a company). You might be thinking of the word “author”, which was co-opted by work-for-hire law to refer to the hirer, which can be a company. I’m not especially fond of that particular twist of the language, either. They really should have come up with their own word, but it’s there in the law, and therefore I tend to avoid the use of the word.

    Regarding WALKING DEAD, Moore isn’t asking for a “do-over”, he’s claiming fraud, and yes, the onus is on him to prove that in court. Kirkman also doesn’t get a “do-over”. If he can’t provide a piece of paper signed before Moore began working on the book, stating that he was hiring Moore’s services, for some defined compensation (upfront and/or backend), then it was a co-creation and Kirkman shouldn’t claim it wasn’t. Control, credit and compensation can of course be modified by later mutual agreement, but the reality of the original agreement cannot.

    And yes, I’m assuming such a piece of paper doesn’t exist, which might be presumptuous, but I’m assuming Moore’s case (other than the accounting issues) would have been thrown out by now if Kirkman had provided a properly executed work-for-hire contract pre-dating WALKING DEAD #1.

  15. @BobH Thank You!

    Caveat…Gilmore Girls referenced by me above is actually Gossip Girl. On one hand I’m sorry I got it wrong. On the other I’m not, you know? Haha.

    Anywho, here’s the link to the pod.

    http://www.nerdist.com/2012/08/nerdist-writers-panel-51-book-to-tv-series/

    The guy goes on and on about being the “owner of the underlying property” and at one point makes it seem very much like an exec from their room pitched ideas to writers for book development. The writer’s wrote it up and Alloy (maybe via work 4 hire, then?) then took over the “life” of the material. Yes, the show has a creator credit but it doesn’t really mean what it might in this Kirkman / Moore suit. I think James Frey is doing something very similar. Yes, that James Frey.

    As to the nebulous point the suits are trying to define is, in your opinion, comic creation one of the messier mediums for that kind of judgement? So many people, so many ideas, such nebulous terms (plotter?) I’m pretty certain that’s why Kirkman is trying to define Moore so specifically and counter suing for over payment. He is trying to frame Moore’s scope of contribution very narrowly and absent any defining / damning evidence from Moore (providing notes or doCumentation that goes beyond that credited role) I would imagine e court would be more likely to side with the guy credited in the work as writer / creator. Meanwhile, that’s why Moore is trying to bring in other properties they worked on together? He could really give a rip about Brit or whatever but he’s trying to show a bigger role.

    All that angling points to the possibility that nobody ever signed a darn thing defining any kind of creator attribution. So, again, I would think Kirkman’s got the long game in his favor with authorship, thousands of pages written, etc.

    Interesting and stomach churning, yay!

    And BobH!

  16. Wow, the producer in that interview sounds like every creative person’s parody of a corporate suit (see Dan Harmon’s recent post-firing interviews, especially the one on the Kevin Pollak Chat Show). Someone clearly told him at some point that the “underlying property” was what he was allowed to take credit for, and he’s internalized that information into a belief that the “underlying property” is what’s really important, that it’s the heart and soul of a creation, so he’ll repeat the phrase “underlying property” like a mantra. I notice he also does the old Stan Lee trick of effusively praising the people he hires while sneaking in a belief that they’re interchangeable cogs in the realization of his vision (or his company’s vision).

    I think Kirkman is the betting favourite to prevail, but only because he probably has more resources to fight the case. In actual precedent, the closest seems to be the Gaiman/McFarlane case (with Gaiman playing the Moore role), which Gaiman won fairly convincingly, but only after a long drawn out legal case.

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